EBay PLM by Wagner

[RichW.]

What's the verdict on Ebay #6512901859. A cased PLM ina Wagner and son marked case. Price is $1500.00US. As the saying goes "if it's too good to be true..."
RichW

[Stephen Previtera]

It is appropriately marked post-war. I have compared it to wartime Wagner pieces and it matches-up well around the ribbon loop and eagles wings. The enamel is terrible, nearly washing over the lettering. I have not yet seen a post-war piece marked 835. Maybe someone else has. All-in-all if you are looking for a postwar piece (and we can all agree on that, but whether we are talking 1925 or 1975 is a guess) for a filler in your collection this could be the one. The lettering is chased, not usual for Wagner, but the cross has the right overall shape and proportions.
SP

[medalnet]

The newes fake !!!!

This one is again the newest fake on the market. Made in Spain on real coining tools. If I would be able to somehow post pictures I could show everybody a good close up of this one.

I was told the tools were broken, which explains that one can't buy them anymore for arround 500 US $. The few made surface more often on Medal fairs and on ebay. Buyer beware. I like to point out my web page at www.medalnet.net to look at the real stuff.

If you like to get a picture of the newest fake email me at andreas@medalnet.net

[mravery]

Andreas,

If you e-mail them to me (the pics) I'll post them for you......

mravery@cfl.rr.com

Cheers
Mark

[medalnet]

They are in the mail...

[mravery]

Pic post for Andreas

Andreas,

Here are the pics...... I'll let you do the details....

Cheers
Mark

[mravery]

Pic 2 of 3

2 of 3

[mravery]

3 of 3

[medalnet]

Thanks for uploading. I hope to be soon able to do so myself.

The piece is bronze gilt. Actually coined, which explains the high detail. You might realize that the beaks of the head feather of the eagles is a bit more edgy then those of all original pieces. The fake one above is also quite thick.

Anyway, there are only 3 official manufacturers during WWI (markings for Silver gilt between 1916 and 1918):

a) Wagner (W 938)

b) Friedländer (FR 938)

c) Godet (J∙G∙&∙S 938 or J G u S 938)

All have their distinct fingerprint in making their individual PlM. They all look always the same (of course the hand-detailing may be slightly different)

[tom hansen]

Andreas-



Would you be able to provide some information about construction and assembly of ww1 era PLMs? Was the enamel placed in the silver/gold frame as a liquid and kiln fired ins situ? Or was the enamel placed in the frame after "baking" the enamel? Would it be possible to see some traces of enamel on the frame if the former process was used. Thanks-

excuse the ignornance if that was a dumb question. I am trying to learn about these pieces. I have looked at your site but cannot find information about construction process for these. Thanks

[medalnet]

Once again, they coined the PlM corpus and then enameled in two stages. First a enamel melting at high temperatures and then the other site of the piece with a lower temperature melting enamel. Then grinding the excess material of and buffing, finally gilding it.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

[tom hansen]

Once again, they coined the PlM corpus and then enameled in two stages. First a enamel melting at high temperatures and then the other site of the piece with a lower temperature melting enamel. Then grinding the excess material of and buffing, finally gilding it.<O></O>

Thanks for the information! This may be a little dumb as well, but if there is a different composition of the powdered enamel and the binder, does the color of one side appear slightly different compared to the reverse side, or is there absolutely no apparent differnce in appearance? Thanks