I was looking at the latest Hermann-Historica auction, and they purport to have MvR's Ehrenbecher up for auction. Anyone have any more info on this, as I assumed that all his items were looted by the Russians when they overran Schweidnitz in 1945.
-
-
That was my understanding also. But with Russia being opened up lately who knows what will come out of there.
Originally posted by VtwinVinceImperial German Medalbars and Ribbonbars -
I think, if this item is really his original Ehrenbecher, it belongs into a museum and not a private auction. But this is only my opinion.
Comment
-
Jens, why don't you buy it and donate it to a museum? I'm sure they would be very happy.Originally posted by JensF.I think, if this item is really his original Ehrenbecher, it belongs into a museum and not a private auction. But this is only my opinion.
I can't wait to see that catalog. I wonder what the provenance is?
Tim"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!" - President Merkin MuffleyComment
-
When is the auction??Regards
Si
SWS Collection 01-14 Images Copyright.Comment
-
Auction #48 is 19 - 23 April, 2005. As usual, there are some incredible items on the block!
Best,
SkipComment
-
Thanks for the nod SkipRegards
Si
SWS Collection 01-14 Images Copyright.Comment
-
Please forgive my ignorance, I'm not an imperial guy.
I'm told the Richthofen's had/have a home (still owned by some relative) here in Denver, and that several of his victory cups are kept there. I know some WWI aviation buffs I can ask about this and will let you know what's still there.
Does anyone else have any info confirming or denying this??
Thanks.Comment
-
-
Thanks Daniel.
Well, according to what I was told, this guy (a co-worker) and two of his friends were allowed an appointment during which they were allowed to view the victory cups. I don't believe everything attributed to the Baron is displayed to the public.
I've driven by this home many times, so I'll have to try and visit this summer. Believe it or not, all the years I've lived in Denver, I've never been inside Molly Brown's house either.
Comment
-
Hi Panzerman,
Try more answers here:
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11
Regards,
OttoComment
-
The castle in Colorado looks very impressive. I'm interested to hear what is in that collection. There is also a relative of MvR's living out here.Comment
-
When we were visiting my two uncles in Colorado a few years ago, my one uncles friend had a glass and a rocking chair owned by Molly Brown. I got to see and touch the rocking chair and I also got to drink out of the glass. I did not get to see Molly Browns house though.
JoshComment
-
Molly actually had two houses in the Denver area. One is the famous mansion downtown, and another is the summer house just a few miles from me. It's now an antique shop, and if I'm not mistaken was (maybe still is) owned by a great niece. It doesn't seem like much of a distance today, but in the days before the advent of the automobile, it would have been a long ride to the summer house in what is now Lakewood. I know Sarge lives somewhere near me and may know more about it. Living in Denver in the 60's and 70's was fantastic. A lot of history. Pretty much turned into a "metro mess" now.Originally posted by pilotshadow26Comment
-
Call me -very- sceptical....
"Russians" and other eastern Europeans are also known for passing off fakes as the real thing. If they claim something came out of a major museum does that really mean anything? Even if they admit they have something, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will ever be sold. The Schlieman gold from Troy that they got their hands on in 1945 stayed a state secret for 45 years, and when that collection "surfaced" in 1991 the government said it would never allow it to leave the country.Originally posted by Paul Chepurko
MvR, is widely known to have died without marrying and left no children behind. His brother Lothar, was also awarded a PLM during the war, and died in 1922 with having married and similarly left no children behind. There was a sister who did marry (a well known English writer), but divorced and never had children. MvR's mother after WWI turned one of the rooms in the family home in Schweidnitz into a private museum that could be toured for a fee. She and her daughter (post divorce) lived there until the final days of WWII when they fled Schweidnitz one step ahead of the Red Army. Mother and daughter buried the family silver (and some other items) in the backyard, and fled; they took only what they could carry with them. When the Russians arrived, they headed directly to the family's house and proceeded to load everything into trucks brought there for that purpose, and they also found the buried items in the backyard (with the aid of a mine detector). The Russian governments (under the Soviets and what came afterwards) have never formally admitted to having MvR's tropphies (and his brother's which were also displayed by their Mama after both her sons were dead). There are members of the Richtofen family (in Germany) that have enquired about the status of both Manfred and Lothar's medals, collections, and so on, and there have been some unofficial discussions that have taken place. Peter Kidluff, a well-known WWI aviation expert told me that it is very unlikely that the Russians would ever piece-meal an item out of the collection, and that release of the entire collection would probablybe a major international negotiation between the German and Russian governments with a hefty price tag attached to any agreement.
There is a published photo of part of the MvR collection while it was still in the Richtofen home prior to 1945. There is one photo of a display case in which at least one of the small victory cups could be seen... The photo example -DOES NOT- match one "cup" that was offered by a well known auction house some years ago.
Without some rock solid provenience on anything with a "MvR" association, I'd be sceptical.
LesComment
Comment