Fracschnalle mit 1870 EKII

[Montgomery Burns]

if I find a picture of the 1890 medal placement list from the 1890 medal book I wil post it here to ,,


thanks

[Montgomery Burns]

oh ,,and here is the proof also found by me that medals were artificially aged by the producers ....http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=515354
well another forgotten contribution I made .
nobody ever wondered what are they made for ?
(by now I can identify the iron crosses who are artificially aged and know how they did it
and I can proof it with period evidence ) dont worry ,I wont waste my energy



I think in case of the special treated medals as luxury editions some experts talk about the same sort of proof should be presented .

regards Montgomery Burns

[Montgomery Burns]

and another one with interesting period pictures

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=675978



1870 rules and list coming this afternoon

Monty

[Montgomery Burns]

ahhh here it is

the correct following order of 1870 medals on a medal bar 1870

to be correct ,,on ( a schnalle ,im knopfloch or an der brust )

[tystgaard]

Hi

I come in peace:-)

I am not Gods gift to medal collecting. And no
expert for sure. Even after more than 20 years
experience I offen still need the help of this
great forum! But still I most say you can not
conclude a medal bar are a new creation on
condition alone. There might be skilled persons
out there making all kind of creations, that's
probably true. Still I don't see any red flags,
and all parts seem original in very good condition.
Can't see why they could not have survived on a
medal bar just as well as survived in this condition
as single pieces. You think a person collected all
parts as single pieces regilded a low value Wilhelm
medal, and mounted them in the correct style?
The EK would probably sell very well alone!
I guess anything possible! But find it more likely
this medal bar was stored well! Just trying to
help!!!

Here are som ribben bars from my collection.
Both around 80 years old. Survived in
very different conditions.

BR
Nicolai

now this is a typical case of ,,,,, the magic assumption box ,,,,,,,.

or better,,,,,, a typical mummy out of the magic assumption box .

well done I love it

K

[tystgaard]

2

2

[Montgomery Burns]

hy Nicolai
I apologize ,,,I just being a bit sarcastic .
sorry for that ,,,not against you personally


But as you provided such a perfect example of a magic assumption box .
I could not restrain myself ,,sorry for that .

especially now I realize that if one does not have the period techniques and material and knowledge books at hand as I do ,
assumptions like the one you made about Egypt items and the bar would sound perfectly logic .

fore your information
egyptian solid gold items will last 10000 years and more in mint condition as gold does not dissolve or oxidise from only air around it .
and its very resilient against chemicals
paint of the paintings on the walls in egypt ar almost nothing else than pigment by now and very delicate ,,,so delicate that tombs often are closed for public to prevent damage of the paintings .
not to mention the state of mummies,,who preservation is a constant worry of the egypt museum.
and would be dust by now if not modern preservation was applied soon after finding them .

gold plating ,brass ,copper,silver, Iron , fabrik is a different matter .
they all fade in collar ,dissolve ,oxidise even in the most dry or low oxygen level region .
they can't stay in mint condition.
and luxury medal preservation does not exist .

proof of what I say,,,, are not only my period books
proof shows in the most prestigious luxury medal of all
the pour le merite .

every legitimate PLM that that is made in silver /gold plated
shows copper oxidising true the layer of gold ,,,,you can find them all over internet.

there are mint PLM medal yes ,,
but they all are solid gold ..and as I told you ,,gold does not oxidise or fade in collar .

but hey ,,
look at the 1870 frame of the iron cross of the bar ,,look at it ,,
the patina you see is copper oxide ,,,copper the silver was mixed with . ( if it is silver ,,,,,,,,,, not some other alloy )
it did oxidise and faded in collar .
what about the 25 oak ?

what ? other medals were not involved in oxidising ? not even the bar ?
they stayed in pure shiny glittering mint ? even the ribbons who should be fade by the influence of air around it and perhaps uv ?

someone claimed a luxury preservation,,,WY NOT PRESERVE THE IRON CROSS ?

this is how a experienced collector looks who doesn't have a brain shut down when he see's a mint item...

a bar with a lot of question marks ,,and I just pointing them out ,,,if someone else believe different go ahead ,,

I just hope I am wrong


REGARDS KAY

[tystgaard]

Alright

No problem! You have a lot of knowledge - right or wrong

These medals was probably not produced on the same
day, they had a life before being mounted. But was
this 1900- 1940 or 2016. So even if the wear on the
medals don't match 100% it can not be proven
something wrong! It's a difficult field!


Interesting subject! I have not more to add.

Best Regards
Nicolai

[Montgomery Burns]

Well in the day's I was in the WW2 field

I collected to such a question mark bar ,,,,also very mint ..I returned it to the seller as there whas a fake clasps on it
even underneath the ribbons on the backside of the bar no oxidising to be found ,,all in superb mint condition .
perhaps from the same bar combiners ,,,?

I don't know ,,but it could be a 1945 bar or something.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=378244

[Montgomery Burns]

at least it's proof that we should be careful with mint Bars .+
I remember the Prague bar was oxidised ,,the rest was not just a litle


regards kay

[tystgaard]

Medal Bar

I would also be more suspicious about that one,
especially when the Praque clasp is thought to
be a fake. It's not so well mounted, could be
explained by it was upgraded with the flower war
medals or long service medal. The fake clasp
could be explained, by the original was missing
and replaced with a fake. Could even have been
remounted post war by the original owner.
But yes I would also be suspicious about that one!
And find it very likely it's not good! And as I said a
difficult field! its a question of not paying to much
extra than you would have payed if they was single
medals, especially if you don't feel 100%
comfortable with the originality of the bar!

BR
Nicolai

[römischIX]

The shown 1870s bar is a clean, top conditioned and well made original piece.

Nothing less.

[römischIX]

The Orleans and Le Mans clasps were also made by Werner

The clasps are correct (order of battle)

[Brian R]

The shown 1870s bar is a clean, top conditioned and well made original piece.

Nothing less.

I am no medal bar expert but, in my years of collecting, I have found that fracks appear to surface in good to mint condition the most. And, it totally makes sense as so many were worn once or a handful of times for a party, wedding, etc. and then put away. It's quite possible that, if stored correctly, and put away in such good condition to begin with, that many today would be remain as such.

I think the argument can be made for medal bars in general given that they were not often worn. But, civilian wear strikes me as even more uncommon than formal military.