Blacklight on Red

[streptile]

Recently I sprung for a very powerful blacklight. I figured it was something I ought to have in my collector's cupboard and my old one, a pencil flashlight, was pretty weak though reasonably effective.

I had one or two surprises when I shone it over all my ribbons, but the biggest surprise was this:

Some period red ribbon thread fluoresces under black light.

I've seen it on more than one period piece in my collection. Stuff that is unquestionably period, like the red thread in the middle of an 1870 KDM ribbon on a buttonhole decoration, or the red of a beautiful old Russian ribbon. Quite odd things. The white portions of these same ribbons do not fluoresce.

I've done a search and found some evidence of this phenomenon on this forum. Here is just one example:

I have a nice original Feuerwehr tunic, where the crimson red piping on both the tunic and on the shoulderboards (sewn in type) light up under UV light. The piping on both the shoulderboards and on the tunic show moth nips (!) (Don't think moth like synthetic fibres) Björn

Has anyone else noticed period red thread glowing under blacklight?

Could it have been a period dye that was used in some ribbons?

[Miro O]

Hi Trevor,

I was occupied with this problem about two years back, and my final results are as follows:

1. Not only red colours on original Imperial ribbons, but also pink, yellow and few others can glow under UV light.

2. There is a difference between glowing of original and post 1950 ribbons, but of course only for trained eye. Sometimes it can not be even called "glowing under UV light", better term would be "strange behaviour under UV light". For example when yellow stripe doesn´t glow, just changes itself to deep orange.

3. We should not forget, or better we should have in mind, the what we test is a UV attitude of base material. If the base material is UV negative, the ribbon passed the test regardless of some stripe glowing on it. Ribbon is fake only when the base material (usually white) is glowing.

Here is the original thread from GMIC, when other members (mainly Komtur and Chris B.) confirmed my thoughts and enriched my knowledge.

http://gmic.co.uk/topic/65356-strang...comment-615117

[streptile]

Miro,

As always, thank you for your very helpful reply.

Fascinating thread on GMIC -- it definitely confirms what I have witnessed in my own collection.

Always something new to learn from our members.

[Montgomery Burns]

do you guy's know anything about UV light and its spectrum's ?
synthetic ingredients in collars and paint ?

SHOULD the subject NOT DEEPEN A LITTLE bit MORE ?

before claiming uv light glowing Stuff that is unquestionably period in mint condition from 1870 is original ...????????

somehow I feel that the conclusions here have something to do with financial interests rather then finding out what the differences in glowing wryly causes ,,,,



all I learned here is ,,SOME GUY'S WANT TO HERE ITS ORIGINAL ,
MAKE IT ORIGINAL QUICKLY THREAD ,,,this is what it is in my opinion .

surely understandable as there is a lot of money involved here,,,,,but threads like this are not OK .



K

[Montgomery Burns]

PS

A microscope can bring up so much about original or not .

But hey ,,,,,


K

[streptile]

1. Not only red colours on original Imperial ribbons, but also pink, yellow and few others can glow under UV light.

Very interesting Miro. I too have noticed that period pink and yellow ribbon stripes can fluoresce under blacklight.

[Miro O]

Very interesting Miro. I too have noticed that period pink and yellow ribbon stripes can fluoresce under blacklight.

UV activity is not something reserved only for synthetic materials. There are many things in nature that do glow under blacklight:

some vitamins and drugs – B12 glows bright yellow
chlorophyll – glows red
scorpions – glow blue or green
human teeth – glow white under black light (while many prosthetics not, so be careful in night clubs with lot of UV neons).
fluorescent minerals – glow various colors
many gemstone, including rubies and about 1/4 of diamonds – glow various colors under black light
some body fluids
fluorescent dyes
banana spots
some animals, plants, and fungi (especially marine life) – usually green or blue
rock salt
fungus that causes Athlete’s Foot – glows orange
turmeric (a spice)
some flowers
olive oil...

It is called Bioluminescency

This is also very interesting article about this theme, although I don´t agree completely with everything written there. It is more focused on cloth militaria items but worth reading.

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Black-light-...6618975/g.html

Blacklight just is not that Deus ex Machina, who will come, decide and solve. It´s like bike, very useful for transport but only for those who know to drive it.

[streptile]

Blacklight just is not that Deus ex Machina, who will come, decide and solve. It´s like bike, very useful for transport but only for those who know to drive it.

Miro,

Thanks again for your very useful and interesting post.

[Miro O]

Miro,

Thanks again for your very useful and interesting post.

My pleasure.

[Montgomery Burns]

the real cause

UV reactive materials

photochromic pigments

UV reactive materials, which initially have an off-white appearance, change to bright colors when exposed to UV rays (sunlight or a UV lamp) and revert to their original pale color when away from UV light.
The basis for these materials are photochromic pigments which can be mixed with an acrylic base and then applied as normal paint. The more dilute the pigment, the less dramatic the color change.

The more dilute the pigment, the less dramatic the color change.

Photochromism

is usually used to describe compounds that undergo a reversible photochemical reaction
where an absorption band in the visible part of the electromagnetic spectrum changes dramatically in strength or wavelength.
In many cases, an absorbance band is present in only one form.
The degree of change required for a photochemical reaction to be dubbed “phototropic” is that which appears dramatic by eye, but in essence there is no dividing line between photochromic reactions and other photochemistry.

photochromic pigments in the paint is causing you're deviations in UV reacting.

Besides pigments, which can be used to make color-changing paints,
photochromic materials are also available in the shapes of sewing and embroidering thread, plastic goods such as beads and buttons, and nail polish. Naturally it’s also possible to produce photochromic fabrics.

here the full info http://openmaterials.org/materials-101-uv-reactive/

K

[Montgomery Burns]

interesting to

Synthetic textiles containing a photochromic pigment.
The pigments are prepared by encapsulating a photochromic pigment in a thermoplastic polymer having a high melt flow index, mixed with a primary thermoplastic resin, and extruded at a temperature of less than 250° C. through a spinnerette having a diameter of at least 0.3 mm.

The present invention relates to synthetic textiles containing photochromic pigments.

Photochromic pigments are those which reversibly change color when exposed to light. Generally the color-change inducing light has a wavelength in the visible or near visible range. Other factors which may affect the color of these pigments include temperature, moisture, electricity, and gases. Photochromic pigments have previously been applied to textiles by coating processes. Such coated textiles have aesthetic qualities associated with the photochromic pigments. However, these textiles are not sufficiently color-fast and their aesthetic qualities are readily destroyed by soiling.

Due to the thermal lability of photochromic pigments, it has proved difficult to directly incorporate such pigments into synthetic fibers.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION
It has now been discovered that photochromic pigments can be blended into resinous fibers, yarns or non-woven textiles without substantial loss of photochromic properties. The dye used can be introduced into this process from a master pigment batch obtained by mixing chromogenic pigments with a low melting polymer. In the process, the dye is blended with resin (the "primary resin") and the mixture is processed into textiles by spinning and drawing or by the spin-bond process. In addition, the invention relates to filaments, fibers and textile material made therefrom.

The textiles manufactured by the process of the present invention are advantageous over the prior art coated products in that the resultant photochromic pigment-containing textiles are more durable (e.g., more color-fast), more brightly pigmented, easily laundered after staining (e.g., by soil, solvents or oil) and readily woven directly into the desired fashion.

here the full link http://www.google.ch/patents/US5422181

K

.

[Montgomery Burns]

Uv glowing Bars are synthetic

also the softly collar changing fabric

as long as there is fabric ribbon that dos not glow under UV light






K

[Dansson]

Very interesting thread, and very good input by Miro!

In the Ebay link Miro linked, I thought the ending was quite funny

"In the main, a 40 year old collector who lives with his mother is not a person whose judgment can be relied upon"
"

But then again, I remember one very famous collector and expert who lived with his Mother according rumors, unfortunately the Guru is now deceased. May he rest in peace.

[gregM]

According to Wikipedia, Uranium salts were sometimes used in dyeing process of silks to help
the color fix to the fabric.