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    #1

    Flugeladjutant vs General Adjutant

    Hello All,

    Question concerning Flugeladjutant vs General Adjutant for Wilhelm I......

    1) What is the difference in Position, job, assignment etc between the two ?

    2) what is the difference in the uniforms between the two ??

    Cheers
    Mark
    Tags: None
    #2
    Adjutants

    Mark,

    basically the difference is in rank. A Flügel-Adjutant usually ranged from Hauptmann through Oberst whilst obviously an Adjutant-General had general officers' rank. Their duties were similar. Both types of adjutant served on the military suite of a reigning sovereign etc.

    Generaladjutant: General's Waffenrock, gold litzen (kolbenstickerei), gold aguillette, royal cipher on shoulder boards in gold plate, normal generals' helmet.

    Flügeladjutant: Infantry Waffenrock with Swedish cuffs, silver litzen, silver aguillette, royal cipher on shoulder boards in gold plate, generals' pattern helmet with silver fittings and white plume. General officers' pattern trousers.

    Regards
    Glenn

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by Glenn2438
      Mark,

      basically the difference is in rank. A Flügel-Adjutant usually ranged from Hauptmann through Oberst whilst obviously an Adjutant-General had general officers' rank. Their duties were similar. Both types of adjutant served on the military suite of a reigning sovereign etc.

      Generaladjutant: General's Waffenrock, gold litzen (kolbenstickerei), gold aguillette, royal cipher on shoulder boards in gold plate, normal generals' helmet.

      Flügeladjutant: Infantry Waffenrock with Swedish cuffs, silver litzen, silver aguillette, royal cipher on shoulder boards in gold plate, generals' pattern helmet with silver fittings and white plume. General officers' pattern trousers.

      Regards
      Glenn
      Hey Glenn

      Thanks for this

      I always thought that they BOTH held the rank of General... but perhaps one was a personal aide (Flug Adj) and the other was just a Staff position.... (Gen Adj).....

      Cheers
      Mark

      Comment

        #4
        Flügeladjudant General von Estorff

        Hey Glenn, what about this,

        the General von Estorff is revered to by several sources as Flügeladjudant of Wilhelm II. (during WWI and lateron as well) So whats your opinion about this?

        David

        Comment

          #5
          General à la suite

          Greetings David,

          I understood that Generalmajor Otto von Estorff was appointed diensttuender General à la suite Seiner Majestät des Kaisers und Königs on promotion to Generalmajor.

          In the last peacetime army list, the then Oberstleutnant von Estorff is listed under the diensttuende Flügeladjutanten.

          Regards
          Glenn

          Comment

            #6
            I hit a dead end on these questions awhile ago. So I'm glad to see the discussion. My question is how many were there? I'm doing a numbers thing now based on the Friedag book. Either it's not there, or I haven't found it yet. The Hilsenbeck book has a lot of information on the helmet plates of the flügel guys. I'm still very fuzzy however on the entire issue. There should be a source some where of the total of how many of each kind of each state that there were. For instance, I have a Bavarian adjutant General's one. I need to go look and see if there is similar helmets for <ST1the other kingdoms. Flügel guys were throughout. One would think that the numbers would drive rarity.

            Comment

              #7
              Aides

              Well Joe, I just asked Glenn if it was possible to look up the German Crownprince aides for me in a PM. I am also very interested in the Aides, but mainly in the ones of CP Wilhelm.

              David

              Comment

                #8
                Flügeladjutanten

                Hi Joe,

                The 1914 Prussian list names 8 diensttuende Flügeladjutanten (permanently attached to the Royal Suite) including one naval officer in the rank of Korvetten-Kapitän. They range in rank from Oberst to Major.

                A further nine Flügeladjutanten are listed in anderweiten Dienststellungen or other appointments. These guys served at regimental duty or on the staff and would serve as duty ADCs as required and normally wore regimental uniform. They ranked as Oberst and Oberstleutnant. I am assuming that when they were detailed for duty with the Royal Suite they would then wear the Flügeladjutant pattern uniform.

                I count a further 27 Flügeladjutanten with various Deutschen Fürsten, some who however also wear regimental uniform. These range from Oberst through Major.

                His Majesty the King of Bavaria only appears to have one Flügeladjutant - Oberstleutnant Otto Graf zu Castell-Castell. All the other Bavarian Princes just have Personal Adjutants with regimental uniform.

                His Majesty the King of Saxony had three diensttuende Flügeladjutanten including one Hauptmann and two further Flügeladjutanten in other appointments. Like Bavaria, the Royal Princes had Personal Adjutants.

                His Majesty the King of Württemberg had three diensttuende Flügeladjutanten including one Hauptmann and two further Flügeladjutanten in other appointments. Again like Bavaria, the Royal Princes just had Personal Adjutants.

                Regards
                Glenn

                Comment

                  #9
                  So what about the General adjutants? Using the list is a great idea. I'm doing a spreadsheet but can see so many logic holes in it it is discouraging. Is there another source?

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by joerookery
                    So what about the General adjutants? Using the list is a great idea. I'm doing a spreadsheet but can see so many logic holes in it it is discouraging. Is there another source?
                    Joe,

                    I don't actually think there was an established number of Adjutant Generals. It seems be be pretty much of a whim of the reigning sovereign as to how many he appointed. It was obviously a great honour for the individuals concerned and the living Adjutant Generals of deceased sovereigns continued to be listed in the army lists.

                    Which leads me to an interesting conundrum. David intimated that Generalmajor von Estorff was sometimes described as a Flügeladjutant whilst a general officer. While I cannot disporove or prove this particular case, I came across an instance of a Generalmajor in the Bavarian Army in 1907 who is listed as a Flügeladjutant!! So what uniform did he wear? An Adjutant Generals or a Flügeladjutants.

                    As you say "logic holes are discouraging".

                    Regards
                    Glenn

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by joerookery
                      I'm doing a spreadsheet but can see so many logic holes in it it is discouraging. Is there another source?
                      Would the spreadsheet mean you have an overview with the names of the Adjudanten? I would be most interested. If you like, join my webgroup on the Adjudanten of the Crownprince I am creating under

                      groups.yahoo.com/group/louis_von_mueldner

                      David

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Thanks for the kind offer. However, the spreadsheet thing I'm working on is built around just trying to determine how many of what kind of helmet plate was around. Chasing individual names is way beyond me so far. Years ago, in an old Kaiserzeit magazine an author tried to determine the same information. He gave me the idea to start this however, I'm using a completely different methodology. Glenn and I have gone back and forth trying to figure out a few things. He has been amazingly helpful. It is amazing that the more I know the more I know I don't know. In the world of helmet plates, the issue centers around the fact that no one really fully understands the reserve, Landwehr, and landsturm set up. References always dodge the subject or pay scant service to it. Hilsenbeck finally decided to start working on the flügel adjutant problem. Maybe we can start to figure out how many of them are out there. Maybe. I really do not understand how Bezirkscommandos worked. They didn't have any lieutenants. They didn't have any Vizefeldwebel's. I have more questions than answers. Thanks to Glenn and members of forums I'm learning something anyway.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Hello Mark, Here are pages from my Paul Pietsch Vol II on the issue. Hope they are of some use.
                          Attached Files

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