Need translation

[mp409mm]

I was looking at a 1870 Iron Cross and for the translation from the German Language I used Bing Here is the original test and the translation I got:

Preussen Eisernes Kreuz 1870 2. Klasse mit Eichenlaub "25" verliehenes Exemplar aus der Stiftungszeit mit dem Kern aus der Berliner Eisengießerei, silberne Zarge, am langen Band mit aufgeklammertem Eichenlaub "25", Zustand 2
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Prussian iron cross 1870 2. class with oak leaves "25" awarded copy from the time of Foundation with the core of the Berlin foundry, silver frame, on the long strap with compounded on oak leaves "25", State 2

Now when saying awarded copy from the time of foundation, doesm it means that it is cop[y? And if yes does the EK has any collection Value?
thanks for any help
Alf

[morel5000]

Hi,

without pics you will not be sure if it is real. However the German text says it is an original awarded piece. I am not sure what Bing is doing.

Best regards,
Michel

[morel5000]

Google:

Prussian Iron Cross 1870 2nd class with oak leaf "25" lent copy from the Foundation of time with the core of the Berlin iron foundry , silver frame , the long ribbon with oak leaves aufgeklammertem "25" , condition 2

even worse

sure like to be a member of the "foundation of time".

[Johnny R]

The translation services do not work well with this type of writing or rarely used compound words, you really need to be familiar with the language and cannot translate things literally.

"verliehenes Exemplar aus der Stiftungszeit"

"Awarded" (used) example from the period (meaning original time these were issued so not a copy)

"mit dem Kern aus der Berliner Eisengießerei, silberne Zarge,"


with a core made in the Berlin iron foundry and a silver frame-


"am langen Band mit aufgeklammertem Eichenlaub "25"

On a long ribbon with a stamped oakleaves (and) "25".

[mp409mm]

Google:

Prussian Iron Cross 1870 2nd class with oak leaf "25" lent copy from the Foundation of time with the core of the Berlin iron foundry , silver frame , the long ribbon with oak leaves aufgeklammertem "25" , condition 2

even worse

sure like to be a member of the "foundation of time".

Google I tried also, and I saw the word LENT I thought that I am in trouble
Alf.

[mp409mm]

Thank you Johnny for your translation, that is better I must say.
""Awarded" (used) example from the period (meaning original time these were issued so not a copy) "
Original time can be any year, so if it is made well after 1870, say 1880 will it be still a collection piece, is there a time frame when a 1870 cross can be considered a period piece? If I am correct, subject to correction 1870 crosses were still being made even after more than 30 years, are these if this is true also a collection pieces.
Thank you for your help.
Alf.

[streptile]

1870 EKs were made well into -- and probably beyond -- WWI.

The best way to determine if a cross is an awarded piece is to examine the details of the frame, the level of detail in the core casting, and the finish and materials. An awarded example will have superior detail to the core, can have a slightly rough (think fine grit sandpaper) finish to the core, which will be blackened and not painted. Also the frame should have a pretty high silver content. That can be hard to judge from photos but with practice it's easy to judge in-hand. Jumprings (the small ring atop the frame) soldered to one side only are not mandatory on award pieces in my opinion. Wagner award-period frames are recognizable by a few key design details, and a cross with a Wagner award-period frame that has all of the above characteristics should be an award piece in my opinion. Award pieces are not particularly common, and many many more 1870 EKs are called award pieces, than actually are award pieces. A Type A core is most certainly not enough to make an 1870 EK2 an "award piece."

Waiting for the right piece -- a fine, early awarded piece -- is the right thing to do. They're not common but they're extremely nice and you won't regret waiting.

Why not join the forum and post a photo of the piece you are considering?

[mp409mm]

1870 EKs were made well into -- and probably beyond -- WWI.

The best way to determine if a cross is an awarded piece is to examine the details of the frame, the level of detail in the core casting, and the finish and materials. An awarded example will have superior detail to the core, a slightly rough (think fine grit sandpaper) finish to the core, which will be blackened and not painted. Also the frame should have a pretty high silver content. That can be hard to judge from photos but with practice it's easy to judge in-hand. Jumprings (the small ring atop the frame) soldered to one side only are not mandatory on award pieces in my opinion. Wagner award-period frames are recognizable by a few key design details, and a cross with a Wagner award-period frame that has all of the above characteristics should be an award piece in my opinion. Award pieces are not particularly common, and many many more 1870 EKs are called award pieces, than actually are award pieces. A Type A core is most dertainly not enough to make an 1870 EK2 an "award piece."

Waiting for the right piece -- a fine, early awarded piece -- is the right thing to do. They're not common but they're extremely nice and you won't regret waiting.

Why not join the forum and post a photo of the piece you are considering?

Thank You Streptile, That is some information that it is valuable to know and learn. I will get some pictures and will post them.
Alf.

[mp409mm]

Ok here are some pictures which I hope are good enough for comments. Thank You.

Alf.

[streptile]

Hey Alf,

Welcome to the forum!

There's no doubt that's a good piece. I don't see Wagner's earliest frame on it, and the ribbon strikes me as a later piece from probably the late 19th or early 20th C. Again, this is hard to sure about from a photo, much less a scan. The oakleaves are also very nice originals. It's possible the ribbon was replaced when the oakleaves were added c. 1895. Whether that is a piece that was actually made during the war is hard to say with certainty, but it's definitely what would be called an "award type"

I think it's a nice piece.

[mp409mm]

Hey Alf,

Welcome to the forum!

There's no doubt that's a good piece. I don't see Wagner's earliest frame on it, and the ribbon strikes me as a later piece from probably the late 19th or early 20th C. Again, this is hard to sure about from a photo, much less a scan. The oakleaves are also very nice originals. It's possible the ribbon was replaced when the oakleaves were added c. 1895. Whether that is a piece that was actually made during the war is hard to say with certainty, but it's definitely what would be called an "award type"

I think it's a nice piece.

Thank You Streptile, much appreciated nice of you to comment.
Now I posted a Ribbon Bar ( I think that what they call it ) with a 1870 Iron Cross, which If I have learned something I would say it is a Godet cross, as soon as I get some feed back on it I will decide which to buy. Thank You again
Alf.