Before doing something stupid! Cleaning a 1870 EKII core!

[vellocino]

Hi I would love to hear your opinion or past experiences during cleaning your own EKIIs or other Imperial medals, I am pretty sure I will hate and regret myself if I irreversible messed up this 1870 EKII Type A recently acquired.
First I have to ID if the layer on top of the core it is made of rust, normal patina or other unidentified substance.
I've been reading other posts dealing with citric acid, boiling water, Vaseline, gun oil and other chemicals, but I am unsure which way to go to protect and preserve this 1870 EKII.
The black cast core 1870 EKII were produced, as mentioned by Streptile in another 1870 EKII thread by :

They were blackened with a varnish made from linseed oil, resin, and carbon. After this was brushed on, heating caused the oil to evaporate, leaving the iron cores with a durable, thin matte-black finish.

The layer of orange/red rust is more apparent in the reverse side than the obverse side of the core, it is smooth at touch, and has some appealing look to it, but I am concerned that will extend even more as time passes.

So I would like to start a useful discussion that can help this piece and be of reference to others found in the same dilemma.
So far I have used a moist Q-tip to gently clean the surface, but it has not removed anything except loose dust.

First question:
1) Is this layer rust, dirt or patina?
2) Should I clean the core and frame in order to protect and preserve the piece or would be the best preservation decision to leave it alone?
3) If the best option is to clean, which method will be the most appropriate to use?

Your honest opinion is encouraged and appreciated in advance.
Thank you,
Vellocino

[vellocino]

Closeup

A better closeup of the reverse core and an image of the full EKII and ribbon, ribbon is another interesting question, since it is a beautiful 30cm (11.81 in) long ribbon, quite blackened or soiled by father time.
Thanks
Vellocino

[morel5000]

Hi,

everything I ever tried I did regret.

Looks like rust from moist during storage.
Nice EK2 1870!

Best regards,
Michel

[streptile]

If this cross were mine I would apply gun oil to the core to arrest the rust. A "moist Q-tip" will probably make it worse over time.

[gregM]

I never go anywhere near my crosses with water.

The most i do is use a dry soft toothbrush and/or Q-tip to remove
loose dust and dirt.

[gen_key]

Hi

if an iron piece is rusty like I see here. I apply little bit "fine mechanic oil"
(weapons oil is good too) on a cotton stick. Then I brush kindly the rusty
places, that removes some rust and seals the places.
On an EK I would only brush maximum the core. The results look for
me always better but realy very very few oil (like a quarter of an oil drob)

Anyway what you try or not I would like to see the result.

Best Regards

Kai

[Montgomery Burns]

one of the reason to be very aware to buy on the e stand is the oiling thing


.................................................. .................................................. .........................

using oil on the core all sound fine ,,,,and maybe makes this cross looking fine for you ,,,,

but only as long its in your collection


.

but what if ,,,,,,,,,,,

you sell or exchange this cross again ? you have to tell the buyer it was rusty and you oiled it ,,?
( will it have effect on the price,,dos the buyer still wants it )????

what if you say nothing ,,just forget ,,,
if the buyer is experienced and finds out ?
if that would happens to me ( the seller would have have a problem )( purists hate it )

if the buyer is not experienced ?
dos it feel right,,,,,, fore you ?



experienced collectors already learned that lesson and know its best to keep your hands of those cores ,,

if you don't like the rust ,

just sell it quick and get you a ek 1870 without rust


regards kay

[vellocino]

Thank you all for your comments, so from what I understand, the less invasive way to clean it, is avoiding water, use of a soft tooth brush to remove the layer of rust and then impermeabilize and stabilize the core to avoid further rusting using a tiny drop of gun oil.
Kay I understand your concerns, but I am merely the keeper of this cross from the time being, as we are all are regarding our collections, (unless someone knows of a way to take them with you in the afterlife ) and I believe besides enjoying and appreciating the piece, it is my responsibility to do what is needed to preserve and prevent further deterioration for the enjoyment/learning path of the next history keeper.
And this thread is a public record of my honest intentions, not looking to mislead or rip someone off in the future.
I will gently start removing the loose rust/dirt without going deep to avoid damage on the core integrity.
Thank you for joining me on the ride.
Vellocino

[mchap]

it is my responsibility to do what is needed to preserve and prevent further deterioration for the enjoyment/learning path of the next history keeper.

Precisely why we dont modify or "preserve" anything without really knowing what to do.

Its not as simple as putting machine oil on it... that stuff is not easy to take off without using other chemicals. Also, oil will oxidize and become a sticky, smelly mess causing small particulates to gather in the creases and crevasses, a real mess. If you do apply any type of sealant, you have to maintain it regularly. I dont recommend any of it...

Kay's suggestion of finding an 1870 without rust is your best bet... a little surface oxidizing isnt going to destroy or accelerate its deterioration as long as its in a low moisture environment.

[pzrwest]

The old saying can apply here... "If in Doubt.... Leave It Alone"

[CWP]

If you leave it in an environment with low humidity it will not get any worse.

The rust is not on the metal. It is the metal.

[Spoonman]

Would Renaissance De-Corroder and then RenWax do anything beneficial? or would it have unintended consequences for his application?

[Jesse]

I have used the renaissance rust remover on an almost terminally corroded 1914 ek2 to see what it did, it removed the corrosion and all the remaining finish. I now think I left it in too long, 10 minutes instead of overnight might have left some of the blackening behind. The cross was essentially wrecked before I did it and it's still wrecked, with no blackening to the core.
If you use it on this, I am sure the finish on the reverse will be removed completely, so I say don't do it.

Ren wax however will stabilise it as it is and causes no damage down the line. it is also easy to remove. The act of adding it to the reverse may loosen what is left though, leaving you with a fixed rusty look.

I would leave this one alone, keep the humidity in check and keep an eye on it to make sure the rust is dead.

There is no going back once you start something...

[SKAND]

Use cotton ear sticks with concentrated 100% lemon juice. After that take clean needles with water to cleanse away juice with dissolved ****. Makes it very carefully, make sure water does not come inside cross. After preserve with Renaissance wax.

[pzrwest]

If you have one of those small silica gel packets, keep one in what ever you store the cross in. They will absorb any future moisture from attacking the cross