1813 Iron Cross second Class

[stogieman]

Did anyone see the 1813 Iron Cross, II Class, that Detlev had on his site this AM? It was amazing. it looked like a ca. 1813-1815 one too me. Any one else care to weigh in on this one?? Anyone have a good shot of one this early? I have photos of a beautiful, wide-frame model, but it was made ca. 1840-1850. Now in a Texas collection.

[stogieman]

Reverse side, but

Usually, they were known to wear this side out!

[George Stimson]

Rick

Here's mine, very similar to Detlev's offering today (and also from him, several years ago).





George

[stogieman]

Very nice!

Nice one George, would have liked to grab the one detlev had today, but there are so many lonely St. Henry Orders, waiting to come home!

[Tim C]

Beautiful!!

Great cross George!

Nice cross Detlev has aswell. This is my prinzen 1813. Not the best photo, but the bead work is really striking.

Regards,
Tim

[George Stimson]

Thanks Rick and Tim. Yes, it's a very nice cross, the only one (yet) from the 1813 series that I have. And not even cracked!

George

[Erich B.]

1813 EK II

I'm the one who picked up the 1813 from Detlev yesterday.
I've been collecting primarily SA for the last 10-15 years or so, but before that was an Imperial collector, and do have a few Imperial pieces still.
When I saw the cross on Detlev's site, I thought it was too good to pass up! It looks to me like a possible original 1813-15 issue piece as well.
Any additional information would be welcomed!
Thanks!
Erich

[Klaus O.]

How much is the value of a EK 2. Kl. 1813 "Prinzengrösse"

Dear fellow collectors;

I saw Detlev's IC 2nd 1813 and was very tempted to buy it.

Since I am perfectionist, when I saw the cracks in the iron core, which BTW are very usual with these early crosses, I thought it would be been wiser for me to wait for a one in better conditions. The only problem originals and better ones are so rare, that very likely in the next year I won't see again one for sale avalaible on the market. Too bad for me, too good for you Erich! Nice purchase. My compliments.

What about Prinzen sized IC 2nd class 1813? How much would you value them? I mean like the one I'm showing to you here in the attachment. It's 33mm reduction and has been described as 1820's issue type of cross. What do you think?

Thank you in advance for your kind comments!

Ciao,

Claudio

[George Stimson]

1813 Prinzengrosse

Claudio,

There's one right now on Der Rittmeister (http://www.derrittmeister.com/eks.htm#ektop and http://www.derrittmeister.com/09136.htm), described as an 1830-50 issue piece, for $1695. (I'd think that price was high.)

George

[Klaus O.]

George,

Thank for your prompt reply. I do browse regurlarly Rittermeister's website just for fun or to learn, but never bought something. I don't even bother to compare Rittermeister's prices with the average market's prices. It's way to expensive!

Just as an example how Rittermeister's prices are not be taken into consideration as market's prices, Nimmergut's "Orden & Ehrenzeichen Katalog 2001-2002" is pricing around Euro 1'227.-

I would rather know from you fellow collectors how much would be ready you pay (maximum) for a IC 2nd 1813 Prinzengrösse (33mm) of the production's period between 1820 and 1830.

Ciao,

Claudio

[stogieman]

For Claudio

Hi Claudio, I would tend to repsectfully disagree with George on this one. A prinzen 1813 would be worth Ken's price, if it's accurately dated and real. Rarer than the full sized, remember that! This is one of the few instances where ken has slighted himself.

[Klaus O.]

Rick,

I also believe that Prinzen-sized medals are generally much rarer and therefore more valued by serious collectors who can appreciate the workmanship of such pieces. Only aristocrats and people of the high bourgeoisie could afford the pleasure to own several different types of wearing copies of their medal, such as miniatures or in Prinzen-sized medals.

What do you think about the one shown by me? I know, it's not a great picture, but have you got a good feeling about its features?

Your comment is always very welcome!


Ciao,


Claudio

[Erich B.]

1813

Thanks Claudio,
I normally try to find examples for my collection in the best condition possible, but I thought that, with 1813 EKs at least, cracks in the iron center did not affect the value too greatly. It seems almost an earmark of authenticity when they show cracking?
In any case, I like the narrow frame of this example and the overall thickness.
I remember in my Imperial collecting days (quite some time ago--I had a WWI silver-gilt Pour le Mèrite with oakleaf that cost me $250.00 in trade, and 4th class Red eagles were 25-35.00! to give you an idea) that Prinzen examples were very hard to find, but at that time very difficult to sell. Most of the collectors I knew wanted only the full sized versions. I think serious collectors today more recognize the rarity and desireability of Prinzen awards.
Erich

[Tim C]

Hi all,

I have a couple of 1813 issue crosses, and a couple of 1830 issue prinzens.

I understand how appealing the perfect piece is, but I think sometimes, and the 1813's fall into this catagory, perfection can be misleading. A crack can be a sign of an earlier 1813-15 piece. I think George's lovely cross is issue with its nice stepped iron core (is it George?)

As for prinzen pieces, I expect most, if not all are 1830 made, and are simply striking pieces.

As there were almost 17,000 2nd class awarded, and we know that there were so few made initially, and prinzen pieces were a nobility or royalty thing, you would expect they are amongst the rarest of the optainable iron cross series.

I agree with Rick, Ken at Der Rittmeister doesn't give his stuff away, but part of what you pay for, is the comfort of dealing with a highly respected dealer, and also accessing his years of experience, not to mention his ability to find these pieces.

I look at it this way, there is no way I could find most of the pieces in my collection myself. so the choice is try,and maybe get a bargan, maybe pick up a copy, or use Ken, and Detlev or whoever it is you like to deal with, and get the real deal.

Claudio, the prinzen you have posted looks OK from the photo, nice big ring, crisp details. Again, if the source of it is good, the chances of it being bad are greatly reduced.

Good luck with it,

Regards,
Tim

[George Stimson]

Tim,

"I think George's lovely cross is issue with its nice stepped iron core (is it George?)"

I can't swear that it's issue, but the core is stepped.

George