W&S Wagner & Sohne EKII

[Robert P.]

I finally found one in nice condition to add to the collection.

I hope you enjoy the photos...

Robert

[Robert P.]

,

[morel5000]

Nice marked one Robert!

Best regards,
Michel

[Robert P.]

Thanks Michel,

I know what you mean; a lot of them are poorly marked.

Robert

[SCOTT G]

Robert , a great W&S marked Wagner and Sohne .
Crisp frame beading with no excessive wear, nice clean core. Yet another top class cross has found it's way into your collection.

[Biro]

Very nice Robert. Great addition to what I'm sure must be a rapidly expanding imperial collection..

Marshall

[EK Hunter]

"There you go again", Robert. A very nice "W&S" indeed.

Best,

Alex

[Robert P.]

Thank you, everyone!

Robert

[Robert P.]

Putting this cross to rest in my Riker mount I couldn't help but notice that it's ribbon ring is much smaller in diameter than any other 1914 EKII I own. It resembles a '39 EKII ring. Was this Wagner's last cross in his evolution of 1914 EKII's? Wagner used so many stamps (S-W, S-W 950, W, Wa,WS,W&S and Wu-S) on their crosses during this period. Is there a chronological order (does anyone know) for the ring stamps?

Robert

[streptile]

Was this Wagner's last cross in his evolution of 1914 EKII's?

I would say it's probably one of the later ones, yes.

No one (that I know) knows for sure what the order of frames and cores was, but we know a few things for sure: early Wagners used cast iron A14 cores and their 1870 EK frames. Yours has a stamped core and a frame with a totally different design.

Is there a chronological order (does anyone know) for the ring stamps?

Not that I know of but again, we can draw certain conclusions. One of the earliest stamps was WuS, and this has a different one. Also, S-W and its variations was not a Wagner stamp but a Sy und Wagner stamp (a different company).

One final point: ribbon rings varied in width and diameter a lot, and no conclusions about period can be drawn from these indicators as far as I know. You were right in your ballpark guess (i.e., this is a later Wagner), but not necessarily for the reason you suspected.

[Robert P.]

Thank you Trevor,

All very interesting. I'm learning little by little. Imperials are so much more confusing and complex than '39 crosses. Perhaps it's just because I am very new to them. I see many makers of Imperials using the same cores, and one or more makers using a number of different cores in their crosses. At any rate there is no 'crash course' with Imperials.

Thank you for taking the time to explain in detail some valuable information. It's much appreciated.

Regards,
Robert