Ek ii - 800 or ?

[colin davie]

I would appreciate some help with this one, the mark on the ring seems to be 3 figures, but badly struck so??? maybe '333'
Any help, as always appreciated. Attracts to a magnet and 44mm across
C

[gregM]

I would say "800" is as good a guess as any.

[dkelley]

More info please.

Would it be possible to measure the 1914 EKII? Iron Crosses made during the Great War made with high silver content was usually stamped as such on the reverse of the badge in the case of an EKI and on the frame of an EKII.

To clear up this question, IMO, we need to determine the size of the badge. The blur on the ribbon ring tends to make me feel this is not a high silver content cross. Otherwise the stamp would more likely be found stamped on the frame.

Hope this draws you closer to the answer you are seeking.

Kindest regards,
Dan

[gregM]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Georgia] Iron Crosses made during the Great War made with high silver content was usually stamped as such on the reverse of the badge in the case of an EKI and on the frame of an EKII.

Sorry but Ek2s were not stamped on the frames except for a very few that had a makers mark or inspection stamp on the small ring. While not real common, Ek2s can be found with 900 and 935
silver stamps on the ring. 800 stamped crosses are not to tough to find.

[Mike Kenny]

Sorry but Ek2s were not stamped on the frames except for a very few that had a makers mark or inspection stamp on the small ring. While not real common, Ek2s can be found with 900 and 935
silver stamps on the ring. 800 stamped crosses are not to tough to find.

Actually, I believe there are genuine period frame stamped 1914EK2s - but they are RARE.

Regards
Mike

[gregM]

Actually, I believe there are genuine period frame stamped 1914EK2s - but they are RARE.

Regards
Mike

They must be rare because I do not remember ever seeing one.

Mike,
Do you have an example of one?

[dkelley]

.800 1914 ekii

Hi Colin - Generally speaking I do not disagree categorically with any of the posted comments. Now we know the cross was made post Great War because it measures 44x44mm, it can be ruled out the cross was not made before the LDO system was decreed.

A 44x44mm frame would suggest this is a maker's mark and not an .800 frame or higher. Perhaps what you see might be a "100." I would like to work on this a little tomorrow. I always say "you cannot know everything about everything." And to that end, I am referring to me.

As you no doubt know, the frame size of WWI EKs were made more to 41x41mm and as large as 42x42mm, but never have I seen an example of a 1914 EKII measuring 44x44mm and having been made during the Kaiser Reich.

With that said, I tend to feel your frame is not high silver content. The identification of Third Reich era made EKs without maker marks has for the most part has already been pinned. To boot, as Greg mentioned, I too have never seen an .800 silver stamp or higher on 1914 EKIIs made during the Third Reich period. I have had and have sold several 1914 EKIs with silver marks plus a soldered 1st Class Spange to the top arm of the badge. However, in many cases the original 1914 cross was used, but not always. Some were made with a one piece back plate of high silver content from top to bottom using a 1914 EK1 reissue measuring 44x44mm.

If you can send me a super high resolution PIC of the ring mark, I can look at it with microscopic accuracy. I am just as optimistic as you are Colin that you have broken new ground with this piece you have. If you can send me that PIC, use info@dkelley.net to give me a shot at it with some high tech equipment. If it turns out to be a maker's mark, perhaps that can be identified as well.

In the meantime, I hope to hear from you. I want to prove your suspicions are correct, although my thoughts are even less positive now. Identifying it dimensions, which you have, and just what is stamped on the ribbon ring I am hopeful I can quantify your question. I have only come back to the forum recently because now, I am approaching my 6th decade of life, I want to help as many people as I can. 3 months ago I had open heart surgery and hopefully I can continue learning for a few more decades. Nobody is ever right 100% of the time, but 40 years in the hobby helps.

Cheers to my Aussie mates!

Dan

[colin davie]

The help is appreciated, the arms of the 1914 are smaller. I hoped someone might recognize the frame and core.
Thanks again for trying to help.
C

[colin davie]

Thanks Dan, sorry to hear about your heart trouble, glad the op went OK, thanks for your time, this scan of the MM is 3200dpi as you can see from the full scans it was hit right on the very edge. I include the ribbon this cross came on, it is the most worn out I have ever seen (but I like it as is)
C

[colin davie]

Probably insignificant, but the oak leaves of this cross sink in i.e. the center veins are the lowest points... my other crosses the leaves are raised proud of the surface i.e. the veins are the highest point. Any other crosses do this?
C

[gregM]

Dan,
It's good to see you back.

[SCOTT G]

Colin, a very intriguing mark indeed. Looking at both of your images I find myself leaning away from a 800 mark to a 3 letter makers mark.
Would also note the curved corners of the inner frame line, which would tend to make me think late inter war manufacture .
Still it's a nice looking cross and the heavy worn ribbon adds to it's appeal, I have some heavy worn ribbons but not this worn

[SCOTT G]

Probably insignificant, but the oak leaves of this cross sink in i.e. the center veins are the lowest points... my other crosses the leaves are raised proud of the surface i.e. the veins are the highest point. Any other crosses do this?
C

A valid observation, I have the same on a couple of "Demuer" cross's and other unmarked inter war cross's

[streptile]

.

[streptile]

In my opinion the cross that started this thread was made just post WWI -- say the 1920s. I remember seeing this unusual frame marked once but I forget the mark. Sascha might know since he sold it. The mark here is probably 800 in my view. The core is a very common, generic type used by many makers and usually called the "Godet core."