Prinzen EKs - to buy or not to buy?

[ubisacco]

Hi there,
i found two at first glance nice looking Prinzen EKs. Till now i have reserved these, but before going on and buy them i wanted your comments.
Please see the pics attached to the links below and give your opinion on those.
EK2 measures 34,5mm each side and the EK1 34mm. No Information about the weight. The EK1 is supposed to be manufcatured by "Sedlatzek".

Thanks for your help.



<a href="http://www.imagebam.com/image/34464c263878211" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbnails107.imagebam.com/26388/34464c263878211.jpg" alt="imagebam.com"></a> <a href="http://www.imagebam.com/image/8af901263878395" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbnails106.imagebam.com/26388/8af901263878395.jpg" alt="imagebam.com"></a> <a href="http://www.imagebam.com/image/6f572d263878540" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbnails105.imagebam.com/26388/6f572d263878540.jpg" alt="imagebam.com"></a> <a href="http://www.imagebam.com/image/864b0b263878681" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbnails105.imagebam.com/26388/864b0b263878681.jpg" alt="imagebam.com"></a> <a href="http://www.imagebam.com/image/9b2509263878960" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbnails106.imagebam.com/26388/9b2509263878960.jpg" alt="imagebam.com"></a> <a href="http://www.imagebam.com/image/b7cf05263879403" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbnails102.imagebam.com/26388/b7cf05263879403.jpg" alt="imagebam.com"></a> <a href="http://www.imagebam.com/image/cddd4a263879681" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbnails107.imagebam.com/26388/cddd4a263879681.jpg" alt="imagebam.com"></a> <a href="http://www.imagebam.com/image/b3e87e263879935" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbnails106.imagebam.com/26388/b3e87e263879935.jpg" alt="imagebam.com"></a> <a href="http://www.imagebam.com/image/4a7d46263880500" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbnails107.imagebam.com/26389/4a7d46263880500.jpg" alt="imagebam.com"></a> <a href="http://www.imagebam.com/image/ffc87d263880856" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbnails103.imagebam.com/26389/ffc87d263880856.jpg" alt="imagebam.com"></a>

[saschaw]

I hope I'm wrong but I think both of these are considered fakes.

Maybe you want to try a search with "small crown fake" ?

That should turn something up...

[morel5000]

Hi,

the ek2 is known as the stepped core fake:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=prinzen

I don't know about the ek1. Please search older threads.

Best regards,
Michel

[Miro O]

EK1 is not the stepped core fake. It is quite interesting piece from Beck militaria, marked SEDLATZEK BERLIN on the pin.
I don´t know it for sure, but to me it looks fine. As I remember, gregM has (or had) EK2 prinzen with this core.

Miro

[ubisacco]

OK. SO FAR!!!
Yes, you are very right. The EK2 ist in deed a stepped core fake. Ist not easy to see since the pic has "shaken", but there is the excedent metal in the inside of the Frame.
What concernes me the most is the fact that the hig-res pics provided by the seller, wich would show exactly THESE tell tale details are "slightly" shaken....due to the light needed for a Close up...or the unavoidable tremble... or a clear Intention to deceive what is a known fake.
I plead for the last, since i dont know a single vendor who would sit on the loss of a fake he bought, or even recognicing it.

Honestly i dindt like it from the beginning. But i still have my doubts on the EK1. I have been following your advice and read all the day threads about Prinzen crosses. At the Moment i dont know what i understood and what i did get wrong.
so if someone could point me to the right thread it would be a big deal of a help.

Thanks again.

[gregM]

If it helps, Here is my Prinzen Ek2 to compare against.

[ubisacco]

Thank you Greg. Its a nice corss you have. If you should want to get rid of it..... let me know.
I continued reading and there is no doubt left, or better there is non way to consider that EK2 as a candidate.
Concerning the EK1 i still didnt found a clear and matching reference.

[Miro O]

Concerning the EK1 i still didnt found a clear and matching reference.

I didn´t find it too - except Greg´s piece. I was interested in this EK1 last year.

I quite believe in it, I like the crisp detail of the core and overall look. I would buy it for 300-350 euros let´s say, with all that risk it bears. But for 650 euros I would choose some other better known and better documented prinzen cross.

Miro

[ubisacco]

Hmmm,
had to decide what to do. Didnt take it.
There are a few details that bothered me from the beginning.
I have seen only one other "Sedlatzek" WW1 Award with the hinge tilted like this one, and i didnt like it either.
Beside of that i started not to like the "stripes" (? what the Name of them on english?) of the Frame. They have a much to clear marked distance in between wich looks kind of flat on the ground instead of the usual "valley" form.

Dont know. To much doubt for a to high price. I think the best advice is to look for a better documented, better known or more trustable Prinz. That also is not in company of a known fake (the EK2).
You are right.
Thank you all for the help.

[Miro O]

I have seen only one other "Sedlatzek" WW1 Award with the hinge tilted like this one, and i didnt like it either.
Beside of that i started not to like the "stripes" (? what the Name of them on english?) of the Frame. They have a much to clear marked distance in between wich looks kind of flat on the ground instead of the usual "valley" form.

Don´t judge Sedlatzek by the hinge. He was only retailer, not producer of these pieces. You can see Sedlatzek marked crosses with various kinds of cores and hardwares.

The stripes are called beading rim and I don´t see any problem with this one. They can be of same width as on normal crosses - and then they look fat and flat - or be scaled down, so they are very thin and crisp. I am posting both examples for you.

The cross on the right is one of the most trustworthy and quite common 1914 prinzen crosses by C.F. Zimmerman. He also produced EK1 Prinzens with same core/frame. Try to look for this one.

Miro

[ubisacco]

Thank you MiroO. I am glad to hear that such a cross could be quite common . So maybe i will stumble into one in the next time. I will have to parctice my Patience again "littel grasshoopper".
But anyway the beading rim seems to have very flat grooves between them, wich is what makes me uncomfortable with this one. Most common problem of fakers is the geometry of the beads and the crossing of these in the Corners. So thats why i look at it with discomfort. The crossing seem OK, but not the beads.

[ubisacco]

Thank you MiroO. I am glad to hear that such a cross could be quite common . So maybe i will stumble into one in the next time. I will have to parctice my Patience again "littel grasshoopper".
But anyway the beading rim seems to have very flat grooves between them, wich is what makes me uncomfortable with this one. Most common problem of fakers is the geometry of the beads and the crossing of these in the Corners. So thats why i look at it with discomfort. The crossing seem OK, but not the beads too great spacing and to flat in between.

[saschaw]

Seems I was likely wrong on the EK1 - didn't look close enough, after recognizing the 2nd class as common fake.

Sorry for any confusion caused!

[Roglebk]

Gregs EKII is a Meybauer, it matches marked ones.

Thread starter EKII is a 'stepped core fake' as already pointed out.

Will look into the EKI more closely.

Beck Militaria is nothing short of a crook with tons of fakes, would not buy anything from them but that's just my opinion.

[Roglebk]

Judging by the beading, hinge and core the EKI is made by Meubauer and a match to Gregs, well spotted Miro!

Important to point out that the Meybauer part of equation is based on very few crosses since they are rare and all have differencies in hardware and so on.