Ribbon bar ID needed

[Dave Danner]

Same thing, be the way, with the Bavarian MVO. You'll find bars with two of them, of course not at any corner.

Technically, you could find bars with three of them, although that would be quite rare.

For example, Jakob Ritter von Danner had a Knight 2nd Class with Swords from the Boxer Rebellion. After 1905 this was renamed the 4th Class. He received a peacetime 4th Class with Crown on 30 December 1913. In World War I, he received a 3rd Class with Swords, a Crown to the 3rd Class with Swords, and the Officer's Cross with Swords. So until he received the Officer's Cross in September 1917, which was a pinback and would have been worn in place of the 3rd Class with Crown and Swords, he would have been able to wear a ribbon bar with the peacetime ribbon with silver swords, the peacetime ribbon with a crown, and the wartime ribbon with gilt swords (and for a few months in 1917, gilt crown and swords).

If I remember correctly, Bavarian regulations allowed at most three. This could be, as with Danner, a pre-WW1 award with swords, a peacetime award, and a WW1 award with swords. It could also be a peacetime MVK to an enlisted man, a wartime MVK with swords, and an MVO after commissioning, though this would be an even rarer possibility.

[saschaw]

Thanks Dave, I didn't want to go deeper than this bar needs... as it's actually even worse than your scenario!

From what I know, more then three were possible, if the war awards were awarded for different conflicts. With China and different other "colonial" wars, more than one pre-WW1 war decoration is possible, that could be worn with WW1 and with peace time awards. I'm not having names, and don't know if there were actual cases, but I'd say it's possible.

I'm not aware of a regulation that delimited it to three crosses on the bar, and it's thinkable... but honestly, I have doubts about it, for the above drafted scenarios.

Also, the Officer's cross did not at all affect the awards one the bar! Those (if for WW1) would not disappear unless a (WW1) 2nd class with swords would replace the 3rd class one the medal bar... check Ritter von Epp, who had three crosses on the bar, plus the pin back Officer's cross.

[Dave Danner]

The only announcement I could find was this one:

Nr. 53768
11. Juni 1915

Seine Majestät der König haben mit Allerhöchster Entschließung vom 10. Juni 1915 Allergnädigst zu genehmigen geruht, daß jene Militär-Verdienstorden und Militär-Verdienstkreuze mit Schwertern, welcher vor August 1914 erworben wurden, neben den in diesem Kriege verliehenen Kriegsdekorationen des Militär-Verdienstordens weiter getragen werden dürfen.

That fits what you said. But I recall seeing a separate announcement that covered the wear of the WW1 MVO and WW1 MVK together, as well as the scenarios with pre-war awards. I seem to recall something there which limited possible combinations to three, but I may be mis-remembering.

Dave

[saschaw]

Thanks, Dave! If you (or maybe one of our Bavaria collectors) finds the mentioned "separate announcement", I'd be really interested. But please, don't search until you turn everything on its head.