Combatants Prussian RAO vs Crown Order

[landsknechte]

I don't have a specific bar in mind, but looking at the seemingly identical ribbons for the Prussian RAO 3rd and 4th Class, and the Crown Order 3rd and 4th Class -



What clues from the other ribbons should one be looking for to divine which of the two decorations is present?

--Chris

[Rick Research]

For the colonial expeditions period, late 1880s to 1914, these were awarded by RANK-- Lieutenants got the Crown 4X, Captains and Majors got the REO4X.

The clues from OTHER awards-- or lack thereof-- help with deciding which is which.

Here is a perfect example:

This bar has no 1897 Centenary medal. Chances are, then, that it was awarded, to a Lieutenant, since colonial actions petered out dramatically after about 1910.

And indeed, it is a CO4X, one of five awarded in the navy for the East African campaign of 1905-07 to then Oberleutnant zur See Edmund Wachtel.

[landsknechte]

For the colonial expeditions period, late 1880s to 1914, these were awarded by RANK-- Lieutenants got the Crown 4X, Captains and Majors got the REO4X.

The clues from OTHER awards-- or lack thereof-- help with deciding which is which.

Here is a perfect example:

This bar has no 1897 Centenary medal. Chances are, then, that it was awarded, to a Lieutenant, since colonial actions petered out dramatically after about 1910.

And indeed, it is a CO4X, one of five awarded in the navy for the East African campaign of 1905-07 to then Oberleutnant zur See Edmund Wachtel.

I take it that it becomes murkier and less obvious once WWI kicks off?

Thanks,
--Chris

[Dave Danner]

I take it that it becomes murkier and less obvious once WWI kicks off?

Thanks,
--Chris

During the colonial period, the Red Eagle with Swords and the Crown Order with swords were the "standard" Prussian bravery awards for officers. During World War One, the hierarchy was Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Knight with Swords of the Royal House Order of Hohenzollern, and Pour le Merite (though some PLM recipients skipped the HHO).

A total of 116 (maybe 117) Red Eagles 3rd and 4th Class with Swords were awarded in WW1. Almost all were to retiring officers. The same applies to the Crown Order, for which there were apparently awarded just 53 of the 3rd Class with Swords and 2 of the 4th Class with Swords.

Dave

[landsknechte]

Okay... So the awards themselves just sort of fade away.

Thanks,
--Chris

[stogieman]

It would be interesting...

... to discern the thought process behind the shift. I wonder if the OKW realized the slugfest they were engaged in and the need for copious amounts of decorations for valor. The PCO & RAO mit schwerter are extremely prestigious and rare awards.... maybe they wanted to keep that exclusivity intact?

[Daniel Krause]

actually all 3 Prussian Orders You can find with the same swords.

In WW1 it came in use to add a crown over the crossed swords to denote the Hohenzollern knight.
For a Crown order it is common to use a swords device with a crown in the center.
Here all 3 examples: