Prussian Pilot's Badge

[Chris_Werner]

Hello everyone:
I want to get feedback from some more experienced Imperial collectors regarding the back marks on these badges.
Do you believe that the Junkers Badges with the 800 and cresent moon hallmark, without the Imperial Crown are post-WWI, or just a contemporary marking variant? Also, is there any "difference" between the plain backed pieces, and those with the sunray backing? I've read Pandis' article, but cannot draw a firm conclusion either way.
What do all of you think?

[Tim Tezer]

There have been a number of threads about this in the past. Go to the "Advanced Search" function and type "Pilot Badges", then select a search only in the Imperial forum, and you'll get a bunch of hits. Read through all of the opinions, then sit down and get yourself a drink. The debate continues.....

Tim

[Chris_Werner]

Thanks.
About all the badges I see, from Der Rittmeister to Thomas Huss lack the crown. Thomas has a nice used one, with a religious medal soldered on the back, probably as a good luck piece. Carried by a Luftwaffe pilot or a member of the Imperial Air Service?!!
Who knows. I'll take that drink now!
Chris Werner

[Deruelle]

Hello,

My little experience tell me that, it's only me who speak here, the only good pilot badge is with 800 and half moon. You can read the book of Neal O'Connor and you will see that the only good pilot badge he show are with 800 silbermark and with the half moon without crown.

If you have got another idea let me know

Regards

Christophe

Thanks.
About all the badges I see, from Der Rittmeister to Thomas Huss lack the crown. Thomas has a nice used one, with a religious medal soldered on the back, probably as a good luck piece. Carried by a Luftwaffe pilot or a member of the Imperial Air Service?!!
Who knows. I'll take that drink now!
Chris Werner

[Chris_Werner]

The more I read, the more I tend to agree that the crown is a "bad" sign. It is interesting to see how this seems to work in reverse. I have never seen a reputable dealer selling a Pilot's badge with a crown as a period original.

I did a search, and it seems that this subject has been well covered, but no definitive answers, yet.

[Tim Tezer]

I have said previously that I am in the "no crown" camp, but I will say this: while I believe that Juncker did not use a crown in their hallmark at the time of the war, they may have used the crown later (although that doesn't make much sense) and it is certainly possible that other makers used a crown. That said, I have never seen a pilot badge that I was certain was original that had a crown.

Another thing to point out is that fakers seem to have caught on to this "no crown=correct" idea, so I have recently seen poorly executed fakes without the crown.

Tim

[stogieman]

And I've....

.... seen some dimly photographed auctions that only have aclear shot of the hallmark. EXTREME care must now be used when purchasing pilot badges. So far, the new breed of fake seems limited to the Pilot badge (Prussian). here's an example:

[stogieman]

Here's the reverse!

Fake! Note the new maker mark. Note the incorrect hinge!