"Thin" EK2 frame beading vs "Fat" EK2 frame beading.

[Tony & Kaiser]

This is related to a recent discussion we had about when "fat" frame beading may have been first used. I am going out on a limb here, so will someone please catch me if I fall? The steps to my hypothesis:

1. Standard 1870 and 1914 EK2 have thin frame beading. However, occasionally one will surface with what looks almost like "fat" TR (Third Reich) style frame beading.

2. In every reference book I have examined the variation of the 1939 EK referred to as "Shinckleform" claims that the these were made from Imperial EK frame tooling etc. The outer edge does have the shape of pre-1918 EK2 with a "1939" core, but why is the beading on the frames fat like a standard 1939 EK2 and not thin like the 1914s?

3. Does it not make sense that if these "Shinckleform" 1939 EK2 use "leftover Imperial parts and tooling" then the frame beading would be thin?

4. "Jogendstil." the German version of "Art Deco" originated in 1920 and emphasized the functional design that was based on logic and geometry. The climax of Art Deco came in 1925 with the "Paris Exposition International des Arts Decorative et Industries."

5. Hypothesis: Perhaps the occasional 1870 and 1914 EK2 we encounter with "fat" frame beading were made very soon after the Great War during the advent of Art Deco in the early 1920s as these EK no longer came under Imperial decree and simply reflect the fashion of the time. When the TR developed the standard pattern for the 1939 EK, they adopted this pattern of fat frame beading, but the shape of the EK also evolved and altered the shape of the arms as we all know. So in fact, is it possible that the Shinckleform 1939 is actually not from left-over 1914 stock, but left-over stock by one (or more) manufacturers who were making EK in the early 1920s? These EK with the fatter frame beading are simply a manufacturer's response to current style. The numbers must not have been great, as consequently, any EK, be it 1870, 1914, or 1939 with the Imperial shape but fat frame beading, are not commonly encountered.

<img src=http://www.kaisersbunker.com/ek/compare4.jpg>

Does anyone have their arms out? Or am I going to land flat on my face here?
Tony

(*Note* Sebastian kindly allowed me to use the photo of the "Shinckleform" 1939 of his EK page on this site)

[George Stimson]

Well, here are two Schinkel-form 1939 EK 2s. The one on the left has the fat beading. The one on the right (to my eye) does not. (Different numbers, too.)

[Eric Stahlhut]

I would tend to rule out the 'Jugendstil' theory, since the style originated in Munich shortly before the turn of the century. Can't have any Bohemian Bavarians redesigning Prussian medals, no sir!

[Bill M]

--Very interesting, Tony!
--What it looks like to me is that the `39's went through a metamorphosis. First struck with Imperial tooling and then 'modernized' with a slightly altered (but still Imperial sized) frame before Adolph finally stepped in and had them made bigger and clunkier.
--That's a very nice cross to the right there, George!

[Tony & Kaiser]

Well, here are two Schinkel-form 1939 EK 2s. The one on the left has the fat beading. The one on the right (to my eye) does not.

George, I would agree that the "thin beading" ones could refelect 1914 stocks; but what about these fat beaded ones?

Eric, my understanding was that 'Jugendstil' reached it's height in 1920, but no matter, lets stick with "Art Decco" then and leave those Bavarians out of it.

But; does any of this make any sence re: the fat beaded EKs with Imperial shapes?

[Eric Stahlhut]

Personally,

I think that the designers who revamped the EK form during the 30's were acting on orders from the NSDAP leadership who merely wanted a design that made the cross look stronger (henceforth the thicker plated beading, which accentuated the swastika in the center) and as a result made the cross look less graceful, I..M humble O. They certainly continued to manufacture '14s and commemorative '70s for whatever purpose with all sorts of different variations because the process occurred over a period of years.

[George Stimson]

Another question I've never heard answered about these EKs is that if they were supposedly made from leftover stocks of Imperial frames, how come so many are available today that are one-piece constructed?

[Frank Heukemes]

Jugendstil (English "Art Nouveau") and Art Deco are two different epochs of European art. Jugendstil is ca. 1895 until 1914, Art Deco 20ies and 30ies.

[Chris_Werner]

That may be so, but I think Tony's got something here that could be researched further. Perhaps the beading thickening was to compensate for the revised and larger EK style in general. Imperials seem more graceful.
And, maybe off subject, but has anyone seen the die flaws in the beading on private purchase Imperial EKs like you would see on a late war T.R. Deumer?