Leo's 1870 EKII Medalbar

[Eric Stahlhut]

Hee Hee Hee

AT LAST ! A 1870 with the same detail as mine

Greg made a funny..............

[Brian S]

I think I've figured it out.

This is an example of an awarded EKII. Simple, quick to the dies and struck for awarding. Not that some more detailed ones might also have been quickly made.

Then came 1895. New crosses, new battle bars, new jubilee spangen, new jubilee kaiser medal === TIME FOR A NEW MEDAL BAR/SINGLE EKII w/Spange for Button Hole Type Wear. Plenty of time to make new improved dies and sell some fancy "modern" crosses mounted on bars. And lots of competition for selling awards.

What do you think?

[George Stimson]

It sounds plausible to me.

[Bill M]

--I would like to know why it is assumed that the Jubilee ushered in the production of new 1870 Iron Crosses. I've also heard nothing more than a 'probably' when speaking about 1913 Centennial 1813 EK's. Is it recorded somewhere that they specifically set up to do this?
--I tend to think that since end of the war, 1870 EK's were produced in dribs and drabs privately, according to demand. And this is why we have so many variations of EK2's, and to somewhat a lesser extent; EK1's. How many 2's can we all match perfectly amongst us? Maybe there was a bit of a spike in demand when Jubilee time came round, but I think nothing more involved than that. Dies being made as needed in the business as opposed to special dies whipped up for the occasion. A progression, and I think the evidence supports this.
--The ring-nub I expect to see on I would say the majority of good early EK2's.

[Brian S]

Bill, they came up with a significant number of awards for these vets. Even if you didn't win the EKII they had the battle bars and the Kaiser Jubiliee. But if you had the EKII they had the silver oaks and enough new awards to create a medal remounting effort. As your EKII was now patinated and the ribbon worn, why not add another 2 marks to the total and get a brand new EK? You've worn your EK for 25 years, it's a keepsake for sure, but why not add the 2 marks for the bar?

[Tschako]

Hi. Don't forget that these awards were worn on civilian clothes for formal occasions throughout the wearer's life, unlike awards here. It's reasonable that one wearer would order several copies of his award throughout his life, made to different standards from different manufacturers, due to loss, ageing, wear or convenience. I think it is unreasonable to assume just one standard of quality or constrution for one particular model of issue.

[Bill M]

"As your EKII was now patinated and the ribbon worn"
"one wearer would order several copies"
--So you don't think that the Germans had their awards cleaned and the ribbons replaced when and if necessary? As a good and practical Protestant people, I think it's probable that they did this instead of wasting money buying new ones. Of course some did, but I think most did not.
--I'll say it again, I don't believe in 'Jubilee' crosses; I don't believe you can specifically date anything to then, anyway. The equipment that they used during this time was likely the 2nd or even 3rd generation since wars end due to technical jumps and the expected replacement of unsatifactory and worn equipment. I think the manufacturing process went on the whole time, and there was no need to create new ones unless the firms' current equipment was unsatisfactory or worn at that time.
--I also don't see that every cross holder, or even the majority would have to have a new cross, most guys didn't have more than one medalbar, (unless they were career officers who didn't think the bar was going to get sooo long...). maybe owning the "awardeds" unmounted.
--I think that, practically speaking, most guys remounted their awards and I'd also venture to say that most regular guys didn't mount their awards at all.