an unusual NCO's bar

[McCulloh]

Recently on ebay I was in an auction that was cancelled. The Seller, being a good guy, sent me a copy of the photo.
It's quite unusual, as it is of a Feldwebel (@1941), who was an NCO in WW1-and apparently received @3-4 separate state awards (I don't count the EK as Prussian as its award was universal). Here's what I think I see-EK2, Bavarian silver bravery medal (by size OR Hessian Tapferkeit medal?), Baden bravery medal, Bavarian MVK 1 or 2, Hansa cross. What do you think? The second 2 medals are fuzzy, but one can discern the ribbons and medal sizes.
It's unusual-if not unique, to see an NCO with that many WW1 state awards.
Here's the medal bar:

[Dave Danner]

It wouldn't be a Bavarian Bravery Medal. The order of precedence would be off for a Bavarian and the size is off. It is also too thick for a Hessian AEZ. My guess is that it is something rarer, a Silver Karl Friedrich Military Merit Medal from Baden. The Hanseatic Cross is Bremen, BTW.

[JBFloyd]

It looks like both the second and third medals have the wide baden suspension loops.

[Rick Research]

There are so MANY things wrong with this that it strains credulity to think that it could possibly be an ORIGINAL photo. (Anyone remember the boy in the over-decorated Freikorps suit a while back? )

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=Kampfwagen

In no particular order:

1) the 1914 EK"1" is SEWN on with black thread up and down on either side of the center of the horizontal arms

2) The Hungarian WW1 Commemorative Medal magically adhering to the lower pocket has the correct side of the MEDAL facing out, but has the BACK side of the trifold ribbon showing-- note hook and eye. THAT is slapped on there... but the Hindenburg Cross is nowhere to be found?

3) The ugly (not that that proves anything one way or the other) medal bar has NO Hindenburg Cross. Mid-WW2 soldiers wearing 1920s bars?

4) The combination of WW1 awards is highly unlikely.

a)The Bavarian MMC2X could only be awarded to NCOs with ranks requiring 6 years of service or being officer candidates-- neither of which obviously applies to a WW2 Feldwebel: there is neither an Imperial (which should be converted to Wehrmacht) Long Service Award nor would a WW1 Fähnrich be this WW2 rank.

b) Hamburg was fairly liberal with its Cross-- at least to staff officers, flyers, and so on. Bremen was not. FIVE WW1 awards to a ? WW1 "Baden Unteroffizier" with a BREMEN and 4a) Bavarian... nuh uh.

c) That is a WW2 Wound Badge... just one more thing that does not "fit" with these ridiculously combined medals.

Looks like a very poorly done fraud photo from this.

[Brian S]

The medal bar looks superimposed.

[Rick Research]

Fraudulent photos are now a fact of collecting life.

Over the top is usually a self-incriminating sign of Something Hideously Wrong:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=white+lapels

[landsknechte]

Hard to say with any certainty, but my gut instinct is that this a Photoshopped image... Something about the way it's lit seems like a color image that's been converted to black and white, and the grain feels wrong. Somehow a little too regular, almost as if it were a Photoshop "filter".

I'm by no means an expert on authenticating antique photos, but as a former photo major who has spent a respectable amount of time staring at black and white images, it just gives me an odd vibe.

--Chris

[stevenn]

the Shadow knows

Look at the shadow of the medals and you will see that there are 2 sets of shadows in places and one set looks drawn in with a program; theEKII doesn't have a shadow and the shadows below the EKI don't match with what is there,the folds in the tunic, or the light on the rest of the picture. Also, look at the top of the ribbons which have been poorly cut and pasted onto the tunic. I'd say you were bleesed because you didn't get a chance to get the Frankenstein photo.

[McCulloh]

A fake photo??? Well, I'm glad the auction was cancelled, but I'd have loved to got the original in my hands.
I thougt the Bavarian MVK2x was given for acts of bravery and the 6 year requirement was ignored.
I'd assumed that this guy was only a Feldwebel because he was recalled and pissed somebody off-political naughtiness did mean no commission in those days.
I noticed the lack of an HK, but again assumed it was a Weimar bar that the chap had pulled out to have his picture taken.
Still-if it's fake, then it explains the fuzziness.

[McCulloh]

bumped for Bob..in Missouri...

[McCulloh]

Note

Note:
I had the photo researched at my local forensics lab at our university.
This photo is real. Rick was wrong.

[Don D.]

So you have the original photo?

[VtwinVince]

Very bizarre photo, but on balance, I think it's real. The combination is so unlikely that I think it stands a good chance.

[McCulloh]

No-but I have a very high resolution scan.
I took it to my state's crime forensics lab as a class project and a local photography company that specializes in historical restoration of older films etc. (I have some older glass negatives of Maine troops in 1898) and both say given the shading etc. it is -in their opinion-highly unlikely this was faked. Again, at the time the photo was offered for only $3 or so (I noted on the back), which, given it was never seen again, makes it unlikely some clever clogs messed with it.
Back in the old days we were VERY suspiscious of any NCOs bar with more than one or two state medals on it.
Now we know there were some rare and odd exceptions, especially in "specialist" detachments and for WO types.

[streptile]

Interesting thread, and I realize my question is six years late, but: is it usual for a soldier to wear the EK2 ribbon in the buttonhole and the ribbon and decoration on the Spange? Just curious.