S&L Showroom circa 1940/1?

[Les]

I think the weep-hole alone kills that BaD cross. It's a novel theory, but a stretch. I think it's unlikely.

Not everyone agrees with what is written about that particular piece. Weitze sold one identical to that one and it was specifically stated as being hollow construction. Jim (Zeppensthusiast) mentioned Weitze's listing (and sale) of the piece in this sub-forum.

Bob Hritz has one of these, and it is definitely not solid with drilled holes. The piece is definitely hollow construction. Bob is a forum member here, a long time collector and well-known in the collecting community. Bob's piece was part of a three medal grouping sold at auction at the Max Show in Pittsburgh slightly over ten years ago, and has a provenance he hasn't fully discussed on this forum.

[streptile]

What do you make of Bob Hritz's similar cross he proved was hollow, though?

I'll have to educate myself about that cross (and yours, I guess) by reading the thread in which it was discussed (which I have now found) before making any remarks.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I can only guess they were consignment items. No evidence suggests they made the PlM wartime. These photos only show a PlM on the wall completing the entire collection of awardable objects. Did they also make the grand cross 1914? I don't think so... This is not proof of anything except a PlM hangs in the room. Which PlM we will without definitive photos never know.

I would say there is little or no chance that they sold on consignment. S+L were not jewellers or retailers.... S+L were a "Metalwarenfabrik", and wholesalers.

I wonder if they even did any enamel work at all.

My guess is they made the metal parts of awards and sourced the enamel work out to others.

[Brian S]

I would say there is little or no chance that they sold on consignment. S+L were not jewellers or retailers.... S+L were a "Metalwarenfabrik", and wholesalers.

I wonder if they even did any enamel work at all.

My guess is they made the metal parts of awards and sourced the enamel work out to others.

Haven't we seen salesman's cards, or been told they were salesman's cards?

Salesmen get many manufacturer's wares from a single wholesaler.

[Robin Lumsden]

Haven't we seen salesman's cards, or been told they were salesman's cards?

They weren't salesmen's cards, Brian...............they were put together for souvenir-hunters immediately post-1945.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Haven't we seen salesman's cards, or been told they were salesman's cards?

Salesmen get many manufacturer's wares from a single wholesaler.

A retail salesmans card for medals would be very illogical... they were not sold door to door on the base.

if there are Salesmens cards then it (for me) is logical that wholesale salesmen used them to show the wares to retailers.

i.e. S+L Rep goes to a military tailor and says "This is what we make, this is the quality"....

as opposed to some guy with a suitcase approaching soldiers saying "Hey meesta... iron crosses? Dirty postcards?..."

best
Chris

[Zepenthusiast]

Here, for ease of reference, is a close-up on the PlM in the S&L display. Hope Jaeger7 doesn't mind it being reposted with proper credit to him as the owner of the image. The edge width stands out, and the "crowded" aspect of the tail feathers and the legs likewise is suggestive of the Wagner-like cross bearing the "GODET" suspension mark, more so than a typical silver-gilt Wagner.

For comparison, what would be great: if Steve/Regular122 has the ability to get a zoomed image of Rommel's Wagner and that of von Arnauld de la Peniere, which he posted on the Study of the Wagner Style PlM thread, the images are at similar oblique angles and both of the latter show the edges well in contrast to the wearer's uniform. I think it would illustrate well what I'm trying to point out. I'll keep looking for other images of better size or resolution as well.


[IMG][/IMG]

[Zepenthusiast]

Just to clarify, my point is not to postulate whether the cross in Prussian Blue--is itself of identical type/origin or engender any controversy accordingly. It was interpreted in the context of the defined wartime hollow and solid Wagner types and concluded to not match anything then having known provenance (and outweighing known hollow PlMs.) I can't examine it and have no way to know beyond the photos and description anything of its exact nature. So my point of reference is rather toward Bob H's described hollow cross, reported to be of the same design/appearance, and that featured for sale by Weitze. The "B.a.D." cross could well be a copy of a truly hollow type, represented by one of these others, a type stated by Weitze to have been made in the interwar years. Weitze's statement such a type existed has been set aside for lack of contemporary supportive evidence so far, but this photo just may be the evidence.