Red Eagle Order 4th Class

[streptile]

Hello fellow Imperialists,

Most of you probably saw this little treasure recently on the eStand, but I figured since it's been a bit slow around here, and since I am its new owner, I'd post a few new photographs of it in its new home.

Cased Red Eagle Order 4th Class

I am pretty confident there are no problems with the set, but I welcome any comments, observations and opinions. I am especially interested to know if anyone can put an approximate date of manufacture to this piece, or a maker. No marks.

[gregM]

It's a beauty Trevor.
I think maybe Andreas can help you with dating that one. If I
remember correctly there are changes in the style of the eagle
that provide clues.

[Steve Campbell]

Really sweet. Should add to your collection in a nice way.

[streptile]

Thanks Steve and Greg.

Greg, your tip about Andreas' site was excellent. I found a very good article about these eagles there. HERE is the link.

I'm certain that mine is a Type 4 and dates from the period 1854-1918. You are correct that makers are determined by the style of the hand-painted eagle.

For ease of reference I've copied this chart into the thread. I confess I can't quite tell which it matches; I'm pretty evenly split between Neuhaus & Sohn and Sy & Wagner. Can I hear your guys' opinions, too?

Here is the chart:



...and here's my eagle:

[gregM]

It sure looks like a Wagner to me.

[streptile]

It sure looks like a Wagner to me.

Thanks, Greg. You think Wagner (#3), or Sy & Wagner (#2)?

I thought Sy & Wagner.

[CSForrester]

The eagles shown on medalnet are only a choice of some makers, they are all from 3rd classes and very detailed in high quality.
The 4th class shown is the last model from approx. 1880 until 1918. Much more producers were involved like Rösner, Zehn, Wilm .......... and it is not shure until today if all medailons were own products or bought by the jewelers from outsourced firms with homeworkers.
So it is nearly impossible to identify the maker of a late 4th class by the painting of the eagle. More typical is the cross itself, lets hope that member RAO will have a look on this one.

Regards
CSForrester

[streptile]

Ah, thanks CS.

Well, maybe I'll drop a note to Mike/RAO and ask him to pop in for a look.

Any other thoughts?

[RAO]

I agree with Markus that it is impossible to find any significant details on this typ of this red eagle order of 4.class to determint a concrete producer. Wether in the style of eagle painting nor on the body of the cross. Only exception those made by the firm of Godet whitch have a complete different styl in there eagle and revers chiffre. Bud a verry nice cross what do you show us. Greetings Mike

[Brian S]

Looks like a typical Wagner, is there a scratched W on the botom edge of the arms?

[streptile]

I agree with Markus that it is impossible to find any significant details on this typ of this red eagle order of 4.class to determint a concrete producer. Wether in the style of eagle painting nor on the body of the cross. Only exception those made by the firm of Godet whitch have a complete different styl in there eagle and revers chiffre. Bud a verry nice cross what do you show us. Greetings Mike

Thank you, Mike. I'd like to see a Godet reverse...

Brian: no marks on this one.

[CSForrester]

A little correction to my last post:
The jeweler with the mark R on RAO 4 is, of cause not Rösner but Rosenthal.
And - also if i am not Mike - i feel free to post a small comparison:
Godet on the left side, Wagner right. The crown, the missing dot on Godet ......

Best wishes
Markus

[streptile]

And - also if i am not Mike - i feel free to post a small comparison:
Godet on the left side, Wagner right. The crown, the missing dot on Godet .....

Unfortunately I am only prepared to look at a Godet comparison posted by Mike...

Just kidding Thanks for that Markus! The Godet cipher is quite different in a number of ways. They always seemed to have unique design, no matter what the decoration.

[RAO]

Thanks Markus,

and that is the key, the missing dot on Godet ......really simple. ;o)

Greetings Mike

[streptile]

I was looking on the cross arms, which are blank...

I've just discovered that this piece is marked on the barrel between the 6 and 9 o'clock arms:

WILM.

Who are they? I do know Iron Crosses may also be found with this mark. Are RAOs also known?

I'm pretty excited to have a marked piece, I must say.