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    #1

    1813 ek2

    Hi all.
    I've been reading lately about the 1813 ek2 and i have a question that I'm sure many have asked before.. The inquestioned ek was manufactured for various purposes right up the first world war. So how can you tell weither an ek was made in 1914 or in 1813? Is it the details? Construction methods? Or what?
    Antti
    Tags: None
    #2
    Just a couple of things -- the earlier ones have "stepped" cores and the frames are much thinner than those on the later made versions.
    George

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      #3
      Is it that simple?
      Antti

      Comment

        #4
        I'm sure there's more. Rick? Madman? Bill?
        George

        Comment

          #5
          Na ja, a bit more is it.

          The first (and original 1813 issue) ones are like George describes.
          The 2nd issue in 1837 (end of the "inheritaged" crosses) have a thicker frame and some other different details.
          In 1913 some "centennial crosses" were made, now of course with all the details of a 1870 cross.

          Anyway, as long as any owner lived there were needs for private purchased ones from different makers.

          Best regards

          Daniel

          Comment

            #6
            Hmm.. So the 2nd issue has some other different details when compared to the first issue.. Could you be more specific?
            Antti

            Comment

              #7
              The best method would be to have some pieces to compare.
              Unfortunately I have no 1813 EK. Can somebody else help?

              Best regards

              Daniel

              Comment

                #8
                1813 Ek2

                Originally posted by Daniel Krause
                The best method would be to have some pieces to compare.
                Unfortunately I have no 1813 EK. Can somebody else help?

                Best regards

                Daniel
                The earliest issues, those made during the Wars of Liberation, commonly have 4-part frames; some even have as many as 6 parts to the frame. As such, they are quite heavily soldered. The suspension rings are quite large, and are also heavily soldered at the joint. The iron cores are frequently cracked. Overall construction is cruder than in later issues, even when compared to those made in the 1830s when production techniques were vastly improved (including the use of 3-part frames).

                T.

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                  #9
                  Antti,

                  I'll bump up some pictures from previous posts. They may help some.

                  Tony
                  An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

                  "First ponder, then dare." von Moltke

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Thanks, mates! While the 3-part construction is more common in later EKs, it is possible to have one in an early ek?
                    Antti

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Blitz
                      Thanks, mates! While the 3-part construction is more common in later EKs, it is possible to have one in an early ek?

                      In my opinion, during the time of the Wars of Liberation (1813-1815) - no.

                      T.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        This picture may not come out to clear ? has anyone an opinion of this apparently 1813 cross.

                        Ashley

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Hello Ashley,

                          What are the height, width and thickness dimensions? What does it weigh in grams? The answers to these questions can be a big help in the determination. Working from pictures alone is very difficult to determine the authenticity of rare items like the 1813 EK.

                          While there is nothing to scale it too in the picture, the shape suggests that it maybe a prinzen or a wide flange full size example. This is one reason the dimensions are essential to further determination. Without them we really can't go very far forward.

                          Having said that there isn't anything really blatant that would alarm me at first sight. But again this is totally dependent on the other factors and can be subject to change. This is just my opinion at this point. As with any rarity having it in hand to scrutinize it is the best method of determination.

                          Maybe some of the other guys can pitch in here and take it further.

                          Tony
                          An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

                          "First ponder, then dare." von Moltke

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Ashley,
                            The core compares favorably with mine, and there are authenticated examples of the wide flange. Other than that, I agree with Tony. When dealing with something of this rarity you need detailed, accurate specs.

                            Translator,
                            Unless I've misread them, according to Bowen, Prowse, and Privatera, the 2 piece frame construction was in use as early as 1813.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Ek2 1813

                              Originally posted by Tom Y
                              Ashley,
                              The core compares favorably with mine, and there are authenticated examples of the wide flange. Other than that, I agree with Tony. When dealing with something of this rarity you need detailed, accurate specs.

                              Translator,
                              Unless I've misread them, according to Bowen, Prowse, and Privatera, the 2 piece frame construction was in use as early as 1813.
                              I've re-checked Previtera, and he does mention that 2-part frame construction was introduced as early as 1813. Also, however, it appears that narrow framed EK2s were the norm before 1815, with the wider frame generally being indicative of post-1815 production.

                              T.

                              Comment

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