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**stogieman** · 10-07-2003, 05:40 AM

Your photos...

Hi Christer. The photo shows your officer wearing the "war ribbon" in his buttonhole and it sure does look like a crown & swords device on that ribbon. The war ribbon was used for The Iron Cross Second Class, The Hohenzollern Knight's Cross with Swords, The Prussian Crown & Red Eagle Orders, when awarded with swords. I have no problem with the photo, but it would not be possible for someone (anyone really) to receive the Hohenzollern Knight's Cross, and not have the EK2 first. I suspect your ribbon bar has had the swords added after the fact. The Prussians had very strict protocal for their awards. You could not get the EK1, without the EK2. You could not get the HoHORK, without both grades of the EK and, you could not get the PLM, without all of these first!

**W McSwiggan** · 10-07-2003, 08:46 AM

Being Picky, I Know!

Rick & Christer,

But - there were exceptions. Need to be careful with generalities and the Prussians who exhibited a high degree of quirkiness...

Korv. Kapt. Nikolas Burggraf Dohna Schlodien, Cdr. Aux. Cruiser MÖWE was awarded the PlM without benefit of the RHHO! I base this on Neal O'Connor's volume (6?)subject Baden & Oldenburg. I suspect that this is not the only case - especially with "Up Through the Ranks" PlM recipients and non-Prussians. In general, your statment is fair but not absolute.

Really not trying to be argumentative but the "Other Rick" has shown me example after example of the Prussians breaking their own rules! Von Schleich (sp?) comes to mind as well.

Originally posted by Rick Versailles

Hi Christer. The photo shows your officer wearing the "war ribbon" in his buttonhole and it sure does look like a crown & swords device on that ribbon. The war ribbon was used for The Iron Cross Second Class, The Hohenzollern Knight's Cross with Swords, The Prussian Crown & Red Eagle Orders, when awarded with swords. I have no problem with the photo, but it would not be possible for someone (anyone really) to receive the Hohenzollern Knight's Cross, and not have the EK2 first. I suspect your ribbon bar has had the swords added after the fact. The Prussians had very strict protocal for their awards. You could not get the EK1, without the EK2. You could not get the HoHORK, without both grades of the EK and, you could not get the PLM, without all of these first!

**Daniel Krause** · 10-08-2003, 04:21 PM

The portrait is quite interesting but not unusual. This guy just shows hos HOH3X on the buttonhole as his highest award.
Even GFM Manstein used this way still in WW2.

The "normal" way was first the EKs then the HOH3X then the plm. But as mentioned ir was not always like that. Also Rommel did not get a HOH3X before his plm.

The ribbon bar is "upgraded". No way somebody wears simple WW1 commemorative medals and no EK. Somebody just added the device on the EK ribbon.

Best regards

Daniel

**W McSwiggan** · 10-09-2003, 05:16 AM

I Wonder

The pattern of EKII, EKI, KHHO3X, PlMO seems most often broken with
non-Prussians per my observation. Rick L. once told me that it might have been an out growth of the system authorizing awards. EK authority was delegated to commanders where orders had to go through the chancellery and subject to the notorious bickering that went on between the states.

Any comments/observations?

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