Armpit-to-Armpit: Sometimes Mega Ribbon Bars ARE Good

[Rick Research]

I'm posting this for new member Mike Downey. Unfortunately in my limited ability to "tweak" his scans (sideways and fuzzy to begin with) some detail has been lost, but I hope the close up crops I've made help.

I haven't been able to come up with "the name," but this clearly belonged to a Major iG who probably made Oberstleutnant iG during the war. The Bavarian Order was only given in this grade up to the rank of Major-- the absence of a Prussian long service XXV cross suggests a young General staff type, and the Württemberg Crown Order as a single also conform to what the rank and type of officer just mentioned received.

First the full front and full back, then closeup details.

[Rick Research]

Absence of the Long Service also suggests wear actually during the war and not postwar. This early type didn't have holes in the metal backing for the devices. Here is the back showing typical steel blunt pin, stamped catch, and the "generic" red backing

[stogieman]

Okay, but...

so many states?
no long service of any type? How did he become Major/Col. with no LS??
Red Eagle, but no Crown Order??
Centennial medal, but again, no long svc.??

[Rick Research]

If anybody can put "the name" to this one, it will be our Württemberg Crown Order Daniel:

so much freakin' hard work because the @#*&$# Archives has LOST the award roll!!!

Here are the first ten ribbons in Prussian/Reichs precedence, circa 1916/17:

1) Prussian Iron Cross 2nd Class 1914
2) Prussian Red Eagle Order (undoubtedly 4th class)
3) 1900-1901 China Medal
4) 1897 Wilhelm I Centenary Medal
5) Bavarian Military Merit Order 4th Cloass with Crown and Swords (almost certainly a single award 'with Crown" rather than two bestowals, as given to Majors)
6) Württemberg Crown Order-Knight with Swords. Yes, the crown device here puzzles me too.
7) Hessian General Decoration
8) Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross 2nd Class
9) Mecklenburg- common war ribbon for crosses from either -Schwerin or -Strelitz
10) Brunswick Ernst August Cross 2nd Class

[Rick Research]

Bad Other Ricky! Bad! I'm not done posting yet! General Staff majors reached that age at 39 or 40, as opposed to 46+ for line pre-war officers, and virtually every iG officer had a Red Eagle as a senior Hauptmann iG before being promoted to Major iG, whereas line officers got an REO4 in their middle-Major years. No Long service indicates during the war suspension of Prussian long service awards 1914-19.

The biography this one shows IS consisent and normal to this level and branch of officers.

Here are the tail end ones

11) Lippe House Order with Swords (of either Lippe-Detmold OR Schaumburg-Lippe)
12) Lippe-Detmold War Merit Cross
13) Schaumburg-Lippe Cross for Loyal Service (despite dumb name, their bravery award)
14) Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration
15) Turkish War Medal star: ribbon only supposed to be worn when the star itself was not being worn. Improper but period crescent device.
16) Turkish Liakat Medal in Silver with sabers Bar

This guy got around!

[Rick Research]

Close up of the Bavarian and Württemberg devices: note the very specifically Bavarian "binding" on the swords of the MMO device.

I am unable to account for the crown on the Wtbg ribbon. there were two grades of Knight in this Order, but they were with and without lions between the arms.

[Rick Research]

and finally , the foreign devices.

From the scans, everything from silk ribbons, steel backing parts, to the actual devices, is consistent with pre-1930s construction. After soooooooo many that have been bad, this one looks good to me!

[Bill D.]

The extent of the knowledge displayed in this and similiar posts is truly extraordinary.

Perhaps Sir Rick of Lundström can assist me with identifying the recipient of a treasured Imperial-related medal bar that I own.

It is comprised of a 1914 second class Iron Cross and a Hindenburg medal with swords.

Any help with identifying the original owner would be greatly appreciated.

[stevenn]

The extent of the knowledge displayed in this and similiar posts is truly extraordinary.

Perhaps Sir Rick of Lundström can assist me with identifying the recipient of a treasured Imperial-related medal bar that I own.

It is comprised of a 1914 second class Iron Cross and a Hindenburg medal with swords.

Any help with identifying the original owner would be greatly appreciated.

I don't know how to break it to you,Mr.Dienna, but you must my man's duplicate set as I'm sure I have his original

[Daniel Krause]

Yauuuuuu! What a nice one!

Typical General staffer, nearly the whole bunch of German states.
What disturbes me is the crown device at the WK3X. There WAS a WK3 class with crown existing, but long before our guy entered service. The bar looks o.k., combo is o.k. so I think it is a period mounting mistake.
For sure he left the army before 1923, otherwise we could catch mhim in the Reichsheer ranklist.
Peacetime just RAO4, China, centenar, so too short to ID. But the hope dies last and the time will bring the ID.

Best regards

Daniel

[Daniel Krause]

I have to "reactivate" this quite old thread because I finally managed to ID the guy.
Is the owner of this bar still here?

Best regards

Daniel

[Chris Liontas]

Look for Rick here:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php

[Mike Downey]

Dan.I'm still here and waiting with great interest your findings...thank you for persevering!
Kind Regards.Mike Downey.

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Mike,

It costed such a long time because it is no bar from the end of WW1; Your guy received even more awards which are not shown on this actual bar. That confused me first as I looked for it and thought it cannot be HIM because he had additional a HOH3X, XXV, AK, HH, SA3aX and ÖEK3X.

so who was it??? Reinhard Thaler, in 1914 Hptm in TelegraphenBtl 6, Commander of the Fernmeldetruppen at the Grea Headquarter, in 1921 LtCol aD Chief of Staff at Inspekteur of Nachrichtentruppen.

His HOH3X was gazetted 29.06.1918, his SA3aX 23.06.1917, so his bar dates probably before that.

His Mini chain and some more stuff were sold at Kube lots of years ago.

Best regards

Daniel

[Mike Downey]

Dan...fantastic detective work thank you! I bought the bar a couple of years ago when I was in the UK from Saxonia Militaria,and I do recall that the seller mentioned that he thought it may have come from Kube,which ties in with your findings.I have a friend out here who has many of the Kube catalogues so I will now try and track down the sale.When duty calls and I am next in Germany the beers are on me!Kind Regards. Mike