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    #1

    A Jewish pour le merit winner ????

    Hi All
    Does anyone know of a Jewish Pour Le Merit winner?? Its just that im curious what would have happened to such a fellow if he survived the war and lived during the Nazi period. I do believe that the Nurenburg laws made povision for decorated WW1 service men who were Jews but I read that the ss deported those men anyway.

    Regards
    Sean W
    Tags: None
    #2
    It was widely believed that the German air ace PLM winner Werner Voss was part Jewish. However, it seems that this has been disputed and that he was actually Lutheran.

    Comment

      #3
      I know Frankl was a Jew, he was also a pilot in WW1.

      Jan

      Comment

        #4
        plm trager

        Cheers For the input guys , but we are straying from the point a little bit , we know many German Jews were highly decorated in ww1 but how they were treat by the nazis is what im pushing at , would the Nazis give preferential treatment to a man who won his countrys highest award in ww1 , just as many of the third reichs leading personalities ( Goring , Blomberg etc) did

        Comment

          #5
          Wilhelm Frankl was killed in action during the war, and was posthumously "omitted" from Pour le Merite lists during the Third Reich. Had he survived... who knows.

          But that is far beyond the sort of topic we normally get into here in the Imperial Forum.

          There WERE certain legal exclusions. The actress Lili Palmer's father (and his family) was given protected status because, according to her, he was the holder of a 1918 silver wound badge. Other exemptions would probably have been more a matter of mixed marriage status and local personal privileged protections (as I suspect the Palmer case was), like that of Luftwaffe Field Marshal Erhard Milch, whose born Jewish mother perjured herself (and he let her!!!) to say he was not her child. There were at least two other "Mischlinge 1st degree" in the Nazi reckoning who were Admirals during WW2.

          That is not to say that anything approaching a nominal fraction of German Jewish war veterans or their families were spared extermination or the slower death of "mere" "work" camps. I have read accounts of 1870 veterans in their 90s being "sent East" to death, medals on their lapels, and accounts of murder squad members "upset" at shooting WW1 veterans wearing Iron Crosses.

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            #6
            Sean,

            You may find this to be of some interest. It is from a small booklet published by John W. Caler Aeonautica in 1967. The title is "The Jew with the Blue Max". The author is Heinz J. Nowarra, a renown researcher of German aviation. This is the first paragraph from the introduction written by the author.

            "In Germany, during 1938, a large book was published concerning the lives of German Aces who had been awarded the Pour le Merite, nick-named the "Blue Max". On page 544 of this book is a table of contents, in which is listed the name "Frankl+", but no information as to where to find a description of his life, as is the case with all the other Aces. Research into earlier publications reveals the cause of this silence. Frankl was a Jew. And, since the 1938 book was published during Hitler's regime, all information on Frankl, who was not only an Ace , but also an Old Eagle, was suppressed."

            What Frankl's fate may have been under Nazi rule we can only speculate as he didn't survive the First World War.

            Hope this helps some.
            An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

            "First ponder, then dare." von Moltke

            Comment

              #7
              Tiger 1 is right.

              I have the book he mentioned. All German pilots with the plm are mentioned with their biography but not Frankl. At least he is mentioned in the added aces list.

              Another case is Vizefeldwebel Nathanael, he won the Hohenzollern Members cross with swords (17 times awarded rarest Prussian NCO award), listed in the Militärwochenblatt but not in any 3rd reich publications.

              Best regards

              Daniel

              Comment

                #8
                Cheers

                Cheers guys For the info its a sad sad thing to think that decorated vets could be treat in such a terrible fashon the mention of 1870 vets in their 90s really gives food for thought.

                To go to the other extreme I read the other day Rudolf Hoess (One of Auschwitzs commandants) was the youngest enlisted man to win the iron cross first class (he was 16 at the time) and also went on to win the iron cresent too.

                Can anyone confirm this?


                PS I know this subject is a little off the imperial forums track but I thought you guys would have this knowledge ( and you do)

                Regards
                Sean

                Comment

                  #9
                  I dont know eXactly but I think he got his EK1 as Unteroffizier, so a junior NCO.
                  As he served with the Turkish forces in WW1 it is most likely that he also got a Iron crescent. And as a member of Bavarian forces I would assume a Bav.MVK with swords too.

                  Best regards

                  Daniel

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Frankl's PLM presently hangs on the wall in New Hampshire and is proudly owned by one of our infrequent forum contributors.
                    If I remembr correctly, the proud owner said 'twas was purchased in the late 1960s.
                    In "Ordinary Men" one of the Police murderers recounted shooting a WW1 eK2 winner in the polish forests.
                    Having just re-read this thread I see what you are getting at:
                    Anti-Semitism was institutionalized in the pre-1914 army. There's an interesting article on jews and the military (e.g. Bavaria and Saxony did not discriminate) in Sheehans' "Imperial Germany". Many Jews served as reserve officers and as Doctors. (I have a very rare photo of a Jewish REGULAR army Doctor from 1873).
                    Ostensibly, Jews who had been soldiers were treated somewhat better by the Nazis when the pogroms began in earnest in 1935. I have a friend whose Father was allowed to jump the immigration que because he had earned the EK1 in WW1.
                    However, it didn't spare the rest of the family being sent to Auschwitz.
                    Others were allowed to continue to own shops etc. depending upon the whim of the Gauleiter. the army tried to protect its own and bought time for many but.. once the Final Solution was going even "privilidged" Jews were doomed. The saddest stories are of the Austro-Hungarian disabled officers who lived in the Disabled Soldiers Homes in Vienna being shipped to Theriesenstat and being diverted to Auschwitz. Many went to their deaths as Rick noted above-wearing their medals and decorations.
                    Last edited by McCulloh; 10-02-2003, 12:32 PM.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      I think fighter-ace Rudolf Berthold was jewish too. Frankl had to pass over to christian to became an officer. And that in Imperial Germany...

                      Comment

                        #12
                        great info

                        jeff
                        Cheers for the in depth info about this meloncholy subject , when you mention jewish RESERVE officres sometimes having preferential treatment !! this rang a bell from reading the diary of Anne Frank it appears that after the Frank family were arrested , a SD officer said to Herr Frank (who had been a reserve officer) "why didint you register you would have been ok" Was this a common practice to not come down hard on former officers??

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Who knows.
                          Last edited by Brian S; 09-29-2003, 08:55 AM.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Its just that im curious what would have happened to such a fellow if he survived the war and lived during the Nazi period...
                            ---
                            The 1942 Wannsee conference spoke to this. How precisely this 'policy' was followed I can only guess. (ps- guess Jeff answered that when he noted "The saddest stories are of the Austro-Hungarian disbaled officers who lived in the Disabled Soldiers Homes in Vienna being shipped to Theriesenstat and being diverted to Auschwitz. " I think the old-age ghetto was supposed to be at Theriesenstat .)

                            Quoting Wannsee transcript:
                            "In addition to these age groups - of the approximately 280,000 Jews in Germany proper and Austria on 31 October 1941, approximately 30% are over 65 years old - severely wounded veterans and Jews with war decorations (Iron Cross I) will be accepted in the old-age ghettos. With this expedient solution, in one fell swoop many interventions will be prevented."
                            http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar.../h-wannsee.htm

                            - Paul in Ohio
                            Last edited by Ruki vyerkh; 09-28-2003, 10:37 PM.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by JensF.
                              I think fighter-ace Rudolf Berthold was jewish too. Frankl had to pass over to christian to became an officer. And that in Imperial Germany...

                              Jens,

                              Frankl left his faith not to become an officer but to marry a Christian woman. She was the daughter of Kapitan zur See Edmond Stroll from Vienna, Austria. Frankl chose love over faith and converted to Chritianity for this reason.

                              Two other flyers that were Jewish were Jacob Wolf and a fellow named Beckhardt. Neither were Aces.

                              T
                              An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

                              "First ponder, then dare." von Moltke

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