Bavarian MVKs & MVOs

[Indyarch]

I have recently been expanding my collection of Bavarian MVKs and purchased my 1st 4th class MVO (w/o swords). I am curious to know if any of these awards are frequently faked.

I wouldn't think anyone would fake a 3rd class MVK, but maybe the 2nd & 1st class MVKs and certainly the MVOs.

I'd appreciate any comment regarding fakes of these awards. Thanks.

[Wild Card]

Hello Indyarch,

For starters, with regard to MVK’s, it is not uncommon to see third class crosses with the swords removed.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Indyarch]

Thanks. Yes, I can believe that. I've recently seen a 3rd class MVK w/o swords in kriegsmetal on a website. According to OEK, this 4th Form was only produced with swords or swords & crown.

Usually these with removed swords are somewhat noticeable too.

Archie

[leibregiment]

Here a silver that has been gilded

[Brigadeführer]

The MVO from leibregiment is a late Geb.Hemmerle from München/Munich. It was a 4th class, like leibregiment already wrote.

1. I don't know any real fakes of Bavarian MVKs. I just know 3rd classes that where gilded to make them look like 1st. classes.

2. I also don't know any fake MVOs - just again - gilded 4th classes - or even worse - I know some where the flames where cut out!

3. And I know MVK 3rd classes with removed swords - but what ever - a 3rd. classe without swords had never existed.

[Indyarch]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your input.

Archie

[Wild Card]

The MVO from leibregiment is a late Geb.Hemmerle from München/Munich. It was a 4th class, like leibregiment already wrote.

3. And I know MVK 3rd classes with removed swords - but what ever - a 3rd. classe without swords had never existed.

Hello Brigadeführer,

But if they did, for the sake of discussion, they would look like this. See below.



Are you certain of this? If I am reading it correctly, in his magnum opus Jörg Nimmergut states that 24 such awards are registered to July 1915. Is this not correct?

Thank you for your interest,

Wild Card

[Indyarch]

I agree Wild Card. OEK lists 3rd class w/o swords. I didn't want to argue the case before. I actually have one.

[Wild Card]

Out of curiosity and in fairness, I have done some more research into this point about third class MVK’s without swords. Checking with Hessenthal/Schreiber, I find that they do recognize such a class and category - #247, Militär-Verdienstkreuz III. Klasse (ohne Krone) - which would describe the piece shown in post #7, above.

At the same time, I took note of Hessenthal/Schreiber #244, Militär-Verdienstkreuz III. Klasse mit Krone, which would be yet another category of third class MVK without swords. Now, going back to Nimmergut, I find that he not only recognizes this category but cites examples of actual awards.

If I am reading Nimmergut correctly, six were awarded to sergeants in the Saxon Inf. Regiment nr. 3 on 29 July 1913 and up to 26 July 1915 there were another seventy-one such awards. Such a piece would look like this.

[Don D.]

I think that one has had the swords removed.

[Wild Card]

I think that one has had the swords removed.

I can not completely disagree in that I have always had reservations about this piece. The “center hole” does appear a bit rounder and wider than what I would expect on a completely correct piece. Also, while there is some, shall I say, “scraping” around the center hole on the reverse (you know what I mean), it is minimal at best. See below.

At the same time, my purpose in posting the piece (reservations considered) was to show what one of these exceedingly rare pieces look like. In retrospect, perhaps I should have noted that this is an example which may originally had swords which are now removed.

[Indyarch]

Thanks for the continuing conversation guys. Great information.

[saschaw]

[...] and purchased my 1st 4th class MVO (w/o swords).

Would you mind to show pictures of that one, please? Those are not indeed faked, but most around have removed swords...

[Indyarch]

MVO 4th Cl

Sorry for the slow reply. I guess I got caught up with work. Here is my MVO 4th Class w/o swords.

[Indyarch]

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