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    #1

    German states EK2 equivalents

    Hi guys, can anyone supply a list of all German states EK2 equivalents? I am quite some way into collecting them all but am now getting confused with some of them, especially the Saxon Duchies. I think I may have bought a couple of awards that are more like EK1 equivalents or even higher.

    Also, does anyone know where I can get a ribbon for the Saxe Altenburg Duke Ernst medal?

    Any help would be appreciated!

    Jess
    Tags: None
    #2
    Discussed in some detail here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=28794

    Comment

      #3
      Jesse,

      Here is a great source on ribbon for those hard to find medals.

      http://www.worldmedals.co.uk/Rib/germrib.htm

      Not original but hard to beat when you need a replacement.

      As to the EK2 Equivlents, not many are smarter on it than Dave. But I will try to list them in one place for easier reference. Finding them all in one place is tough even in a forum like this. So I thought I would put this together. Corrections welcome.

      ---
      (most of these are mine but a few are pics borrowed from archives. Nearly all are enlisted versions when distinction is made)

      1st Pic, left to right

      Top Row

      1 - Prussia – Iron Cross
      2 - Baden – Merit Medal
      3 - Bavaria – Military Service Cross
      4 - Saxony – Friedrich August Medal
      5 - Wurttemberg – Military Merit Medal

      Bottom Row

      6 - Hanseatic – Bremen, Hamburg (pictured) & Lubeck Cross
      7 - Hessen-Darmstadt – Bravery Medal
      8 - Mecklenburg-Schwerin – Friedrich Franz Order
      9 - Mecklenburg-Streilitz – Cross for Distinction in War
      10 - Oldenburg – Friedrich August Cross

      Not included is Hehnzollern as the awards were varying degreees of the Prince order

      More in next Post
      Attached Files

      Comment

        #4
        Pic Two, Left to Right

        Row 1

        11 - Brunswick – Ernst August Cross
        12 - Anhalt – Friedrich Cross
        13 - Lippe-Detmold – War Merit Cross
        14 - Schaumburg-Lippe – Cross for Loyal Service
        15 - Saxe-Weimar – General Service Decoration

        Row 2

        16 - Saxe-Meiningen – S-M War Cross (officers), Medal (enlisted)
        17 - Saxe-Altenburg – Bravery Medal
        18 - Reuss – Merit Medal
        19 - Schwarzburg – War Merit Medal
        20 - Waldeck – Merit Medal



        I, too, have a few gaps on these but am getting there. Hope this helps, Steve
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #5
          Fantastic!

          Dave and Steve, thank you, this has been really helpful. I have an Ernst II Saxe Altenburg Medal, it has Fideliter Et Constanter on the reverse surrounding a maltese cross with the Saxe Altenburg arms inside a wreath. It appears to be gilt. Would I be right is thinking this is a non military award?

          Many thanks,

          Jess

          Comment

            #6
            A nice collection, but some minor corrections and quibbles:
            • Verdienst means "merit"; Dienst means "service". So Bavaria's basic military decoration is the Military Merit Order (for officers) and the Military Merit Cross (for NCOs and enlisted soldiers).
            • For a Saxon enlisted man, the Bronze Friedrich August Medal was the basic military decoration. Yours looks like a silver one? Because Saxony's awards were rank-based, the silver FAM would be the basic EK2 equivalent for an NCO, but would be a higher or second award for a junior enlisted man.
            • The Hesse-Darmstadt decoration is actually called the General Honor Decoration "For Bravery"; there was also a General Honor Decoration "For War Merit" with a different reverse, as well as other reverses for other purposes (lifesaving, loyal service, etc.)
            • Mecklenburg-Schwerin's Friedrich Franz Cross was a homefront war aid decoration. What you have is the Military Merit Cross 2nd Class, the basic bravery award.
            • Brunswick's cross is often called the Ernst August Cross, but its proper name was the War Merit Cross. It was single-class until March 1918, when a pinback version was added as an EK1 equivalent. So the one you have became the War Merit Cross 2nd Class.
            • Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach's basic decoration for non-officers was the General Honor Decoration. The one you show is a peacetime or non-combat version. The EK2 equivalent would have a rectangular clasp on the ribbon with crossed swords.
            • Saxe-Meiningen's officer award was the Honor Cross for Merit in War and the NCO/enlisted version was the Honor Medal for Merit in War. Yours looks like a nice early bronze one, rather than the later zinc ones.
            • The two Schwarzburg's decoration was officially the "Silver Medal for Merit in War"


            I am in the middle of revising an article on all the Iron Cross equivalents (and the "not-so-equivalents") of the German states. I hope to post it soon, although health issues might prevent that.

            I am also two medals short of finishing my EK2 equivalents for basic enlisted soldiers of all the states. I don't have a Hohenzollern Silver Honor Medal with Swords or the Silver Merit Medal with Swords Clasp "1914" of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order for Saxe-Coburg Gotha. Similarly, I am two orders short of finishing the EK2 equivalents for lieutenants: the Princely Schwarzburg Honor Cross 3rd Class with Swords and the Princely Waldeck Merit Cross 4th Class with Swords. Those have eluded me and the latter two just keep going up in price whenever they appear in auctions. I expect the Schwarzburg and Waldeck crosses being auctioned this Friday to go for 800 to 1000 euros or more.

            @ Jess: what you describe is the Gold Merit Medal of the Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order (goldene Verdienstmedaille des Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischen Hausordens) for Saxe-Altenburg. As a military award, with swords on the ribbon, this was rare (only 67 awards, almost all to Vizefeldwebels in IR 153). It was a high decoration for mid-level civil servants and other civilians, though. It is much rarer than the Bravery Medal, Saxe-Altenburg's basic EK2 equivalent for enlisted men. It is basically a civilian award, but during peacetime it would also have functioned as a long service and good conduct-type medal for senior NCOs.

            By the way, those are generic Saxon duchy arms on the reverse. The reverse was the same for the Merit Medals of the Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order for all three duchies. Only the obverse was different for each duke. Here, for example, is the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha version:

            Comment

              #7
              This is turning into a great thread. I have a couple of these but will use this when others become available to know what I am looking for. Thanks.

              Comment

                #8
                Dave, thank you for this info. I have a resonable collection, a couple courtesy of ottomaton here on the forum. I have the Hohenzollern silver medal with swords from him.

                I also have a version of the Saxe Coburg medal pictured above, although mine has no year bar and the swords are actually attached between the ribbon loop and the medal itself. Is this normal?

                I have never posted pictures and need to figure out how to!

                Thanks guys, this has really helped, I am sure I will be back with more questions.

                Jess

                Comment

                  #9
                  Thanks Dave for keeping us straight as usual.

                  I usually err on the side of the visual and the simplistic for understanding and then move on to the greater detail. I have pretty good command of German and toyed around with the idea of using the official abbreviations and names but then it gets more complex when I felt Jesse and many others could do with just a basic visual survey of the medals. That is why I welcomed your corrections in my original post.

                  All but two awards Dave? WoW! Can't wait for the EK article. And your website is a constant flow of knowledge for the rest of us apprentices. Steve

                  Comment

                    #10
                    The quickest of summaries of the article and a basic guide to EK2 "equivalents".

                    EK equivalents fall into three categories, based on how many of the following criteria they satisfy:
                    1. the basic military decoration of the particular German state,
                    2. awarded to officers and enlisted men without regard to rank,
                    3. awarded in two classes, one on ribbon and one pinback, with the lower class a prerequisite for the higher.

                    "States with True EK Equivalents" satisfy all three criteria. "States with Egalitarian Military Decorations" satisfy only the first two. "States with Rank-based Awards Systems" only satisfy the first one and it is a question of deciding which would be the basic award for a particular rank. There are hybrids, too, as some states had an egalitarian award for all officers or for all enlisted men, but otherwise divided awards based on rank. I also am not satisfied with my category names, so I am working on that.

                    Also, when you get to EK1 "equivalents", you have another can of worms. Some states had nothing which could be called an EK1 equivalent, others had complicated criteria for second awards, so there might be more than one decoration that is an EK1 equivalent, and several of the "States with Rank-based Awards Systems" for their EK2 equivalent had an egalitarian decoration as an EK1 equivalent. So for now, to avoid complication, I will stick to EK2 "equivalents".

                    There were 24 entities of the German Empire that awarded decorations: four kingdoms, six grand duchies, five duchies, five principalities, one quasi-principality, and three Hanseatic cities. There were actually 7 principalities, but by WW1 both Reuss principalities and both Schwarzburg principalities had common rulers,with the prince of one acting as regent of the other. The quasi-principality is Hohenzollern. The Hohenzollern lands hadn't been sovereign since the mid-1800s and was an administrative region of Prussia, but the prince of Hohenzollern, cousin to the Kaiser, continued to award the Princely House Order. In ranklists and state handbooks, the Princely House Order is usually listed last under Prussian decorations, rather than separately.

                    "States with True EK2 Equivalents"
                    • The Kingdom of Prussia (of course): the Iron Cross 2nd Class
                    • The Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin: the Military Merit Cross 2nd Class
                    • The Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Strelitz: the Cross for Distinction in War, "Brave and Loyal"
                    • The Grand Duchy of Oldenburg: Friedrich August Cross 2nd Class
                    • The Duchy of Brunswick: War Merit Cross 2nd Class (Brunswick only barely qualifies as for most of WW1, the War Merit Cross was a single-class decoration; the War Merit Cross 1st Class was created in March 1918).

                    "States with Egalitarian Military Decorations"
                    • The Grand Duchy of Hesse: General Honor Decoration "For Bravery"
                    • The Duchy of Anhalt: Friedrich Cross
                    • The Principality of Lippe-Detmold: War Merit Cross
                    • The Principality of Schaumburg Lippe: Cross for Loyal Service
                    • The Free and Hanseatic City of Bremen: Hanseatic Cross
                    • The Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg: Hanseatic Cross
                    • The Free and Hanseatic City of Lübeck: Hanseatic Cross


                    "States with Rank-based Awards Systems" (Hybrids are italicized)
                    • The Kingdom of Bavaria: For officers, various grades of the Military Merit Order with Swords; for NCOs and enlisted men, various grades of the Military Merit Cross with Swords
                    • The Kingdom of Saxony: For officers, various grades of the Albrecht Order with Swords; for NCOs, the Silver Friedrich August Medal; for enlisted men, the Bronze Friedrich August Medal.
                    • The Kingdom of Württemberg: For most officers, various grades of the Friedrich Order with Swords; for NCOs and enlisted men, the Silver Military Merit Medal. However, Württemberg confused things, as many lieutenants appear to have received the Golden Military Merit Medal as an initial award shortly after their Iron Cross 2nd Class, and received the Friedrich Order Knight 2nd Class with Swords later, if at all.
                    • The Grand Duchy of Baden: For officers, various grades of the Order of the Zähringen Lion with Swords; for NCOs and enlisted men, the Merit Medal on the ribbon of the Military Karl Friedrich Merit Order.
                    • The Grand Duchy of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach: For officers, various grades of the House Order of Vigilance or the White Falcon with Swords; for enlisted men, various grades of the General Honor Decoration with Clasp and Swords.
                    • The Duchy of Saxe-Altenburg: For officers, various grades of the Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order with Swords; for enlisted men, the Bravery Medal.
                    • The Duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha: For officers, various grades of the Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order with Swords; for senior NCOs, the Golden Merit Medal with Swords Clasp; for junior NCOs and enlisted men, the Silver Merit Medal with Swords Clasp.
                    • The Duchy of Saxe-Meiningen: For officers, the Honor Cross for Merit in War; for enlisted men, the Honor Medal for Merit in War.
                    • The Principalities of Reuss: For officers, various grades of the Princely Reuss Honor Cross with Swords; for very senior NCOs and warrant officer-types, the 4th Class of the Princely Reuss Honor Cross with Swords; for other NCOs, the Golden Merit Medal with Swords; for enlisted men, the Silver Merit Medal with Swords.
                    • The Principalities of Schwarzburg: For officers, various grades of the Princely Schwarzburg Honor Cross with Swords; for senior NCOs, the 4th Class of the Princely Schwarzburg Honor Cross with Swords; for Feldwebel and below, the Silver Medal for Merit in War.
                    • The Principality of Waldeck: For officers, various grades of the Princely Waldeck Merit Cross with Swords; for most NCOs, the Golden Merit Medal with Swords; for Sergeant and below, the Silver Merit Medal with Swords. In some exceptional cases, the Honor Cross with Swords, a grade between the Merit Cross 4th Class and the Merit Medals, was a first award, but in most cases it was the highest award a Waldeck non-officer could receive.
                    • Hohenzollern: For officers, various grades of the Princely House Order of Hohenzollern with Swords; for NCOs and enlisted men, the affiliated Merit Crosses and Golden and Silver Honor Medals with Swords.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      So if you were to try to collect the EK2 "equivalents" for common soldiers, you would need the following:
                      1. Prussia: Iron Cross 2nd Class
                      2. Bavaria: Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with Swords
                      3. Saxony: Bronze Friedrich August Medal
                      4. Württemberg: Silver Military Merit Medal
                      5. Baden: Merit Medal on the ribbon of the Military Karl Friedrich Merit Order
                      6. Hesse: General Honor Decoration "For Bravery"
                      7. Mecklenburg-Schwerin: Military Merit Cross 2nd Class
                      8. Mecklenburg-Strelitz: Cross for Distinction in War, "Brave and Loyal"
                      9. Oldenburg: Friedrich August Cross 2nd Class
                      10. Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach: General Honor Decoration in Bronze with Clasp and Swords
                      11. Anhalt: Friedrich Cross
                      12. Brunswick: War Merit Cross 2nd Class
                      13. Saxe-Altenburg: Bravery Medal
                      14. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha: Silver Merit Medal with Swords Clasp of the Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order
                      15. Saxe-Meiningen: Honor Medal for Merit in War
                      16. Lippe-Detmold: War Merit Cross
                      17. Reuss: Silver Merit Medal with Swords
                      18. Schaumburg Lippe: Cross for Loyal Service
                      19. Schwarzburg: Silver Medal for Merit in War
                      20. Waldeck: Silver Merit Medal with Swords
                      21. Bremen: Hanseatic Cross
                      22. Hamburg: Hanseatic Cross
                      23. Lübeck: Hanseatic Cross
                      24. Hohenzollern: Silver Honor Medal with Swords of the Princely House Order of Hohenzollern

                      For a collection of EK2 "equivalents" for lieutenants, you would need:
                      1. Prussia: Iron Cross 2nd Class
                      2. Bavaria: Military Merit Order, 3rd Class with Swords
                      3. Saxony: Albrecht Order, Knight 2nd class with Swords
                      4. Württemberg: Friedrich Order, Knight 2nd class with Swords (or the Golden Military Merit Medal, but that's much harder to find as it was made of gold throughout the war)
                      5. Baden: Order of the Zähringen Lion, Knight 2nd class with Swords
                      6. Hesse: General Honor Decoration "For Bravery"
                      7. Mecklenburg-Schwerin: the Military Merit Cross 2nd Class
                      8. Mecklenburg-Strelitz: the Cross for Distinction in War, "Brave and Loyal"
                      9. Oldenburg: Friedrich August Cross 2nd Class
                      10. Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach: House Order of Vigilance or the White Falcon, Knight 2nd class with Swords
                      11. Anhalt: Friedrich Cross
                      12. Brunswick: War Merit Cross 2nd Class
                      13. Saxe-Altenburg: Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order, Knight 2nd class with Swords
                      14. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha: Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order, Knight 2nd class with Swords
                      15. Saxe-Meiningen: Honor Cross for Merit in War
                      16. Lippe-Detmold: War Merit Cross
                      17. Reuss: Princely Reuss Honor Cross 3rd Class with Swords
                      18. Schaumburg Lippe: Cross for Loyal Service
                      19. Schwarzburg: Princely Schwarzburg Honor Cross 3rd Class with Swords
                      20. Waldeck: Princely Waldeck Merit Cross 4th Class with Swords
                      21. Bremen: Hanseatic Cross
                      22. Hamburg: Hanseatic Cross
                      23. Lübeck: Hanseatic Cross
                      24. Hohenzollern: Princely House Order of Hohenzollern, Honor Cross 3rd Class with Swords

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Great summary Dave. That ought to be enough to keep guys busy for years! Steve

                        Comment

                          #13
                          To illustrate, here are the twelve in the first two categories, which could be earned by either a private or a lieutenant:
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Here are the ten I have which a private could earn. Again, I am missing Hohenzollern and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha:
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #15
                              And here are the nine I have which a lieutenant could earn. Again, I am missing Schwarzburg and Waldeck. There are only nine as the basic decoration was the same for Saxe-Altenburg and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

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