Germán Naval Land Pilot Prinzen

[Lubo]

Hello, I need opinions on this prinzen badge, it’s 30x46mm 15.4 grams?
eMedals sold one like this for the hefty over 1500$, but both of them, this one and the one on emedals seem cast to me!
What do you guys think?

[VtwinVince]

Lots of differing opinions on this type, some feel they're legit, others don't.

[Lubo]

Thank you Vince, here is the one on eMedals to complete the thread.
What bothers me most is the soft back and the hardware.

[Hagrid]

Hi Lubo!
For I have two of them, I started a thread a while ago:
https://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...er-prinzensize
I am convinced they are pre 1945, but they do not sell, despite they are not seen as often as one might exspect if they were fakes.
Recently two went unsold in an auction in Germany with a large heap of different flight badges, maybe because Baldes lists them as reproductions.
regards
Hagrid

[VtwinVince]

Personally I like the look of them, and I am not put off by the appearance of the planchet and reverse hardware. Where's Ferg?

[Lubo]

Thank you for the input Hagrid, Vince!
In Hagrid’s thread, Ferg offered to post his similar badge made by the square punch maker, but I don’t see it!
The front of this one is right as rain for me, it’s just that the reverse bothers me!

[Hagrid]

Ferg is one of the few I listen to when it comes to flight badges... he has things in his collection I only dream about !
But in this case I think he´s wrong...
No need to fight, but why should there be any connection to the Quad maker ?
They use a different design.
In hand these are convincing... plus: See my last post in the other thread.
I think these are real.
Regard
Hagrid

[Ferg 1]

I’m here guys, just soaking up the conversation !
I am still not that convinced about this type ,I had one once and just didn’t get that nice reassured feeling about it . Having said that , it’s true enough that these do not appear too often compared with the well peddled fake badges and of course it may have nothing in common with the square punch makers example ,so that I guess, is a plus .
it all boils down to ones own comfort with a questionable piece . But after all ,isn’t the chase sometimes more interesting than the catch ?
Ferg

[Ferg 1]

Was going to post another pic of mine but can’t seem to find the attachment option on this new look forum ,it’s driving me nuts !

[Lubo]

Bottom line for me guys, IS THIS BADGE CAST OR NOT, forget about the hardware, and yes it’s not supposed to be compared to the square punch maker one!
Ferg, all the attachment options should be within the white lining of the answer box (at least on my cell phone, it is!)
IS IT CAST OR NOT?
All the images of the Reverse I’ve seen, give the impression it’s cast!
Lubo

[VtwinVince]

Keep in mind that some manufacturers used cast planchets.

[Lubo]

Yes, Vince and that’s perfectly fine, but in this case all I’m trying to do is to establish some comfort for myself (thinking of getting one of these)!

[Hagrid]

May I quote myself:

Hello again!
It took me a little longer -
but thanks to the kindness of Dennis Suitner of Trave-Militaria at Lübeck (recommendable dealer, by the way...very professional!) I finally managed to have a XRF-analysis done on the badge.
It turned out to be made of

63% Cu, 33.5 % Zn, 0.1% Ni and 2.3 % Au

That tells us it´s brass, stamped and gilded....

This material, together with the typical traces of a worn example, plus the other pieces of the group it came with -
all this leads me to the conclusion that this badge is a contemporary (or, at least, maybe 30ies) edition of the naval landflier-badge.
- plus (admittedly...) some -strong and positive- personal gut-feeling.
(Not to forget the esteemed expert opinions of Stephen, published in his book, and of e-medals, who sell their items with a guarantee on originality...)

Nevertheless I still would be very happy with the documentation of more traces in the collecting world (pictures, auctions, discussions, books and papers etc.) these Prinzen might have left !
And - of course- with every opinion, positive or negative ....

Regards
Hagrid

[Lubo]

Thank You Hagrid, so I take it pictures lie when they give me the hint of it being cast!

[Ferg 1]

I would say that this is struck not cast . Here is mine , the detail is crisp and has a burnished sun . Interestingly the reverse set up is almost identical apart from the edges on the one discussed are soft and rounded, same as the one I had years ago .
Ferg 86A969D0-7BB9-4029-9653-F515211A39F7.jpeg