MilitaryStockholm

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Odd Freikorps ribbon bar????

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Odd Freikorps ribbon bar????

    I bought a small lot of ribbon bars because one of the ribbon bars matched a medal bar I have.This one I can't figure out. I think the ribbon on the right is for the Baltic Cross, but I have never seen a ribbon like the one the left Any ideas? Thanks for your help. Regards Chris
    Attached Files

    #2
    Is that right way up for the pin? In that case, the ribbon is upside down.

    Here's mine, last in this "South German" style bar from Bremen (!) --

    the Austro-Hungarian Maltese-Order decorations of 1916 came in seven grades, all of them quite scarce. I don't think I've seen a handful, literally, of them over the years.
    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for the info Rick The picture is upside down Do you have a picture of the order? My search came up empty. regards Chris

      Comment


        #4
        I only have Austrian price guide catalog pix, nothing "live and in color." The three medals are oval like the Austro-Hungarian Red Cross ones, with a big 8 pointed Maltese cross in the center. The silver, gold, and white enamelled crosses (there was also a neck grade) have a center disk with a Maltese cross and split "fish tail" 8 pointed arms. 1916 on back.

        The SINGLE side red and white stripe was to indicate frontline services-- apparently they presumed ongoing issues AFTER the war, which of course never happened. All black ribbon was for rear area wartime awards and would likely have been the peacetime ribbon had things turned out differently.

        These awards are a bit mysterious-- I've never encountered any award documents for any grade. They were granted for services to the Malta Order's Austrian branch hospital/nursing system-- but how or why any GERMAN would have been involved with them (rather than the GERMAN branch, which awarded nothing during the war) is a puzzler. Given the comprehenxive rank structure of these awards, there's also no way to tell the status of a German recipient in most cases-- not for your bar, nor for mine.
        Attached Files

        Comment


          #5
          ...and it's now the latest addition to my collection!

          What does the Austrian catalog call this decoration in German? (Whenever possible, I try to catalog items in my collection in both English and German.)

          --Chris

          Comment


            #6
            !

            !
            Last edited by Rick Versailles; 09-13-2004, 11:52 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Rick Versailles
              No photo??????
              I don't have it in my paws yet, but it's [literally] the same bar as pictured above.

              --Chris

              Comment


                #8
                This page from Roman Freiherr von Prochazka's book shows a selection of the more than 50 variations he catalogued. The formal category was the Souveräner Militärischer Ritterorden des Heiligen Johannes von Jerusalem, "Ordo Equestris Sancti Joannis Hierosolymitani" (commonly shortened to the Malteserritterorden). The variations are all interlocking, but it appears that the Service Medal is a subset of the Service Order, which was established in 1920, not during the war. In any event, this series is fraternal and not freikorps related.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by VerKuilen Ager
                  This page from Roman Freiherr von Prochazka's book shows a selection of the more than 50 variations he catalogued. The formal category was the Souveräner Militärischer Ritterorden des Heiligen Johannes von Jerusalem, "Ordo Equestris Sancti Joannis Hierosolymitani" (commonly shortened to the Malteserritterorden). The variations are all interlocking, but it appears that the Service Medal is a subset of the Service Order, which was established in 1920, not during the war. In any event, this series is fraternal and not freikorps related.
                  Would these decorations been awarded to full-fledged "Knights" of the Order of Malta, volunteers, or both?

                  Thanks,
                  Chris

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Here is a better image:

                    Last edited by landsknechte; 05-04-2005, 04:18 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Spotted another one of these decorations up on Manion's:



                      Interesting that this one is paired with a Baltic Cross as well. Anyone else have any examples of this ribbon?

                      --Chris

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Isn't that 'odd' ribbon also the ribbon of the Awaloff Cross? That would fit in with the Baltic Cross. When Awaloff-Bermondt created his 'Order' in 1920, he seems to have just taken existing stocks of the other Malteser ribbon. The Awaloff Cross which sold as part of the big group on Ebay last week certainly had this ribbon, and the whole group appeared 'untouched'. The story of Awaloff's 'Order' is quite interesting. He basically established it as a personal 'house' award when he fled to Denmark in 1920. The whole thing was heavily based on the various Orders of Malta.......hence, presumably, the adoption of this ribbon. I think the Awaloff Cross would make perfect sense as part of all the bars illustrated above.
                        Last edited by Robin Lumsden; 03-01-2005, 09:43 AM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Robin Lumsden
                          Isn't that 'odd' ribbon also the ribbon of the Awaloff Cross? That would fit in with the Baltic Cross. When Awaloff-Bermondt created his 'Order' in 1920, he seems to have just taken existing stocks of the other Malteser ribbon. The Awaloff Cross which sold as part of the big group on Ebay last week certainly had this ribbon, and the whole group appeared 'untouched'. The story of Awaloff's 'Order' is quite interesting. He basically established it as a personal 'house' award when he fled to Denmark in 1920. The whole thing was heavily based on the various Orders of Malta.......hence, presumably, the adoption of this ribbon. I think the Awaloff Cross would make perfect sense as part of all the bars illustrated above.
                          Good catch! I had only glanced at the auction, and hadn't seen the photo from that auction that showed the entirety of the ribbon.

                          I've come across one reference that spoke of Awaloff having created the "Souveraner kaiserliche-russischer Malteser-ritter-orden". If that is the same thing we're talking about here, then the attribution of this ribbon as...



                          ...and lumped in with other Freikorps decorations would make sense on a 1921 ribbon manufacturers sales card. It's probably still on the two post-1934 ribbon bars as a "foreign decoration".

                          --Chris
                          Last edited by landsknechte; 03-01-2005, 02:05 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            ...and for reference, the Awaloff Cross from the sale that Robin referred to:

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by VerKuilen Ager
                              This page from Roman Freiherr von Prochazka's book shows a selection of the more than 50 variations he catalogued. The formal category was the Souveräner Militärischer Ritterorden des Heiligen Johannes von Jerusalem, "Ordo Equestris Sancti Joannis Hierosolymitani" (commonly shortened to the Malteserritterorden). The variations are all interlocking, but it appears that the Service Medal is a subset of the Service Order, which was established in 1920, not during the war. In any event, this series is fraternal and not freikorps related.
                              As something of a segue, I stumbled across a few photographs of the Austrian Maltese Order tonight. Even though at this point, I'm fairly well sold on the fact that the decoration on my ribbon bar is indeed the Awaloff cross, I thought I'd share these as a reference since pictures of them seem to be rather hard to come by.



                              Comment

                              Users Viewing this Thread

                              Collapse

                              There is currently 1 user online. 0 members and 1 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 8,717 at 11:48 PM on 01-11-2024.

                              Working...
                              X