Polizei A Darker Shade of Blue

[Thälmannpionier]

Aside from the fact the Tunic is not woolen, the very first thing that struck me was the date. It is I/2, which is second quarter 1982. If the date tag on the garment in question is as it appears, then I think that in itself brings into question the authenticity of the Tunic.
.

Hi Michael,

Thanks alot for representing your observations

regarding the Markings,here is a pic of the markings from a DVP Jacket I had in my Collection. Its also 1/2 and some numbers. I guess there was a different date/marking system in the early days.
But that doesn't proof the authenticity of the Tunic yet.

[Thälmannpionier]

[quote=Michael D. Gallagher]

Initially, the hat looks great. It has that really nice "Crusher" look.
But, there are things that bother me.
Firstly, the hat appears to be brand new.
The light colored sweatband appears to be of modern era production.
And there is no sweatshield. It actually does not look as though it really ever had one. The color beneath where it originally would have been, and the color around it are all the same. Normally, when a Sweatshield is removed or torn away, there is a color variation.
[quote]

Photos can be very tricky sometimes. I can asure you,the Hat doesn't look as "new" as it might appears on the Photos.
I would very much appreciate some Photos of other 50`s era Sweatbands to see if there is a color difference on the Sweatbands.
To the sweatshield,I also was not that happy to have no sweatshield in the cap. But at least it has the shape of a early Sweatshield and most likely it was a private made hat from i.E. Emhage or Dresden.
about the color Variation when a Sweatshield was removed,My guess is that it was removed from the wearer just in the period,when these Uniforms were worn.Therefore it maybe is missing a color Variation.

Its very hard to find out if authentic or not with these Uniforms,as supply of Uniforms was very slow in those days and they used everything that met nearly the Standarts of Uniform regulations in the early days of the DDR.
Only best references are Uniforms of the same branch and timeperiod,that are in possesion of Long-Time Collectors.
I very much appreciate any further Info and Observations

[Mike G.]

Andreas,

Rather than wait for members who might know more about this topic to view and see this thread (which might take some time); you might want to PM the following members to expedite a review and response:

David H.
SCHUPO
Stefas
Nico

I'm sure one of the above, if not all, can assist you.

[Thälmannpionier]

Michael,

No need yet I'm pretty sure all of the Guys you mentioned,do regulary check the DDR Forum and will have a look into this Thread(at least I hope so)

I went to all my Hats to compare the Sweatbands and came to the result,that there are 3 different colours of Sweatbands. Its gray,brown and dark-brown. Applies for both, MdI and NVA.

Here is another Photo comparsion between a NVA Field Hat and the DVP Hat in question.

[Thälmannpionier]

..and here is another Stamp from the DVP Hat Sweatband

P.S. I'm actually pretty convinced about the originality of the Hat but have some minor doubts about the Tunic,because of the different Material. It was auctioned as a Drillichjacke from the DVP. It has the look and all the features of a Drillichjacke but I would like to know if the DVP did use Drillich Jackets or just Wool

[SCHUPO]

Andreas,

I will make a few observations if you will permit me. The cap looks pretty good to me from the photos. The cap cord looks fine, most (but not all) DDR cap cords twist this way. My concern would be more that it does not seem to fit very well. Look carefully at the buttons and make certain they are the early DDR style with copperish backs and also look in the band for other holes where they might have been moved over. Also, look at the visor and see if you can see wear or marks from the cap cord wearing against the surface over time. The sweatband looks proper to me but I have not seen these markings before so I cannot comment on them. The visor seems to be the proper pressed paper style and I can't see any big red flags, except the length of the cap cord, from the photos. You have it in hand and if it looks like it was worn 40 years ago I would probably be happy with it. As Michael said, they are being reproduced though so err on the side of caution.

As to the tunic, it appears to be early DDR to me. I think the tag just states the last number of the year and that is not limited to the year 1982. Not a very good system, I think, but the Germans did the same thing during WWII. The light blue color would be a red flag for me but the tunic is faded. It looks like it could be an early Feuerwehr tunic as easily as a DVP tunic from what I can see in the photos. I agree that the collar tabs seem dark as well but again, that is not condeming on its own. Let me look through some books and see if I can see one of these cotton summer tunics being worn by the Polizei. I do know they were worn by the Feuerwehr.

[SCHUPO]

Andreas,

OK, here is what I was able to determine. These blue tunics were Volkspolizei regulation from October 1948 through October 1954 when they were replaced by the dark collar green tunic. There was of course a wear out period. The "I/2" marking could indicate the first quarter of 1952, IMHO. I would expect date markings to correspond to circa IV/(4)8 through IV/(5)4 on these tunics while other dates would raise red flags.

I can find photos of what appear to be cotton (not wool) blue summer tunics in wear by the DVP during this time period. Interestingly, I also found photos of the cotton police tunics in white being worn by both Traffic Police and Water Police of the DVP during this time period. As to collar tabs, some appear lighter in color than others in the same photograph and the shape varies from sharp edged to rounded edge piping. The lack of a backing and thick piping is a red flag to me but again it is possible during this time period. This was a very make-do time period with not much standardization in manufacturing techniques as are found in later uniforms because of the centrally controlled factory systems then in place. Early DDR uniform collecting is an area not for the faint of heart.

From this photographic evidence, I would say that lacking definitive police markings your tunic could be either DVP or FW. My comfort level with this outfit is fairly high at this point.

George

[SCHUPO]

David,

In looking for uniform regulations for Andreas, I found your unknown rank shoulder boards from your post on the first page of this thread. The shoulder boards on both the DVP and FW tunics are the same rank style. The boards with the thin central aluminum stripes and bar at the base is a Polizei-Meister rank from the Januar 1949 regulaltions. That should make the FW boards Brand-Meister.

George

[Kozlov]

David H....

Further up this thread (sorry to arrive so late) you showed a DVP Oberkommissar uniform... the holster is on the right hand side and reversed.... i didn't think Eastern Bloc soldiers ever did "imperialist style cross draw", but always used a classic straight draw.

Or this an earlier period with fascist influences still?

Not being funny, just an observation from someone who is more into field gear that other things ;-)

[Thälmannpionier]

Andreas,

OK, here is what I was able to determine. These blue tunics were Volkspolizei regulation from October 1948 through October 1954 when they were replaced by the dark collar green tunic. There was of course a wear out period. The "I/2" marking could indicate the first quarter of 1952, IMHO. I would expect date markings to correspond to circa IV/(4)8 through IV/(5)4 on these tunics while other dates would raise red flags.

I can find photos of what appear to be cotton (not wool) blue summer tunics in wear by the DVP during this time period. Interestingly, I also found photos of the cotton police tunics in white being worn by both Traffic Police and Water Police of the DVP during this time period. As to collar tabs, some appear lighter in color than others in the same photograph and the shape varies from sharp edged to rounded edge piping. The lack of a backing and thick piping is a red flag to me but again it is possible during this time period. This was a very make-do time period with not much standardization in manufacturing techniques as are found in later uniforms because of the centrally controlled factory systems then in place. Early DDR uniform collecting is an area not for the faint of heart.

From this photographic evidence, I would say that lacking definitive police markings your tunic could be either DVP or FW. My comfort level with this outfit is fairly high at this point.

George

Hello George,
Thank you very much for your help
Now I can sleep alot better,knowing that Cotton Summer Jackets existed in the DVP.That was my biggest concern.Could it be possible,that it has something to do with Officers Rank??(that they were allowed to wear the better or more comfortable Clothing)
Yes,the Jacket is faded and the colour washed out.I guess it was much darker blue a few decades back.My guess is that the Jacket was worn privately,after 1954
To the Hat..it has traces of use from the Cords on the Visor and also some other spots showing slightly wear.The Buttons have the Copper backing.
The Police Star had some glue behind it but that isn't a bad sign for me
,as I think that would not have been done by a Collector nor a Faker.It probably was done by the original wearer,because he wanted the Star to secure and better fit. The Police Star also is original and is marked with Prewäma.
Again,thanks alot
Regards
Andreas

[Mike G.]

Andreas,

Thank you for posting your Tunic and Hat, and asking the questions you posed. Very educational. Heretofore I certainly was unaware of the DVP wearing a Drillich Tunic of this fashion, but it certainly makes sense.

Excellant information that was developed and passed along here.

By the way - with respect to your Tunic and Hat - great acquisition.

[Gordon Craig]

Andreas,

Well I am finally in Budapest but still in the hotel. I have a temporary account at the embassy and it could be a few weeks yet before my computer is set up in our apartment.
Great looking hat and tunic. Congratulations on the acquisition. One comment. Are the shoulderboards the correct ones for this tunic? They look a little too long.

Regards,

Gordon

[David H]

Thought I might revive this thread with a few newer articles, both could be regarded as links between the TR and DDR periods.

First up a TR M35 tunic which has been dyed dark blue for post war police use. The colour difference between the collar and body is still very noticable, unfortunately the date code is not visible, it is badged for Sachsen and has TR period boards that appear to have been though a unsuccessful dying process as they have just about faded back to the original brown. This is an amazing tunic and I am suprised it has survived, but I'm glad it did. There is a part of me that is sorry to see a TR tunic dyed but on the flip side pleased to see one of the earliest forms of 'East German' police tunics.

[David H]

Second up is a cap that featured in an earlier thread started by the TR guys enquiring about the identity of this cap.. Well it is indeed a very early Police Generals cap manufactured by Erel (later to be Emhage) interestingly it appears to me the blue wool the cap is consructed from has again been dyed, but this time before manufacture ( this is only a personal opinion based on close up inspection of the material ) this really is a great cap and I would class it as one of the rarer items in my collection.

[David H]

side view eshowing its saddle shape and vulcan fibre peak