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Billy Kramer

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BGS or not BGS ?

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    #1

    BGS or not BGS ?

    Here's a BGS tunic wich might has started life as something else.
    If it is BGS,I won't be dissapointed however and at least you'll see another BGS one with some detailed pics.
    First noticable is the large V cut opening between the dark green collar and the lower collar tunic green.
    Others have almost no "v" at all and the gap between neck collar and brest collar is just a few mm and they run parralel.
    difficult to explain.
    Attached Files
    Tags: None
    #2
    The shoulder boards have cold feeling real silvercord with cardboard filling.
    Large stars have been removed once.
    Real old ones.
    Also the green collour of them seem odd.
    Attached Files

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      #3
      The small buttons are without maker but marked EXTRA FEIN.
      So pretty hard to date.
      The large frontclosure aren't marked at all,exept one wich is Assmann but is a replacement one.
      Attached Files

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        #4
        Smart detail is that the french cuffs are lined with (artificial?) silk.
        And the collar tabs seem to have had an stitching attachment containg 2 different threads.
        I don't like the grey backside off the collar.
        That's not an old style feature.
        However replacement collars sewn on by tailors when a collar is worn seem to havethat grey backing.
        I've seen it on post war modifications of wehrmacht garments into schutzen or hunting tunics.
        But assuming this is a replacement collar is to much of it for now perhaps.
        Attached Files

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          #5
          Finally the label.
          funny with those needlepins but it is attached only at one side .
          stitching of the label is bad and I only have 2 hands so this was the best I could do.
          GEORG LEX or something the maker seems to be.
          located at the ..........strasse number 1 ?
          A name and unreadable date are filled in inkt.
          Any ideas?
          regular polizei,BGS or something else?
          all the best,
          Kees
          Attached Files

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            #6
            I would simply call this tunic "custom-made" .... some of the mentioned differences to an issued tunic remind me of details found on tailor made BW tunics too... as these tailors most often have (had) a long tradition the use of "antique" technics or older parts (buttons) would be no wonder for me.

            Jens

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              #7
              It is a typical custum tailor label now you mention it.
              So I think I just was looking for that RZM logo to much to miss that.
              thanks.Custom made BGS ins't to bad luckily.
              All the best,
              Kees

              Comment

                #8
                I agree with Jens. The significant wear on the collar that highlights BGS style collar tabs is important to me. The minor differences with production jackets don't bother me at all. There is no other BRD service that would have the combination of dark collar, BGS shaped collar tabs, French cuffs, and that style of junior officer's rank.

                You should see signs of BGS arm badging on the left sleeve. What will help you date this is if you see signs of the BUNDESGRENZSCHUTZ arc, or just the shield/eagle badge. No signs of an arc means it is before about 1970. Signs of an arc mean work after 1970.

                Steve

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                  #9
                  I'll echo the sentiments of the others - a tailor-made garment.

                  As the rank is 'officer' (and in the military officer's are responsible for the purchase of their own kit), it does not surprise me that it is a tailored garment. Further, as it's 'early' BGS (if you step back from the screen you will see a 'shadow' of the eagle shield only), it would not surprise me if the tailor was still using TR 'methods' for the cut of the garment. Who knows, the wool used might even have been from old (pre-1945) stock.

                  My last comment is simple. It's a 'beauty'! If it were me, I'd restore it to it's former glory. I'm envious.

                  Now, back to cleaning off glue .........................

                  N
                  Last edited by Nachrichten; 01-22-2013, 06:41 PM.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    There only was an eagle badge ,no arc so corectly seen.
                    I 'm not into restoring,sorry.
                    I have so much projects of restoring tunics with badges again,that I can't even start with the first one.

                    Kees

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                      #11
                      I'm sure you can find it a good new home! All it needs:

                      1. 4x gold Sterne (gold pips)
                      2. 2x silver Handgesticht Kragenspiegel (silver bullion collar tabs)
                      3. 1x silver Handgesticht Armabzeichen (silver bullion eagle/shield arm badge)
                      4. (optional) replace the existing Schulterstück with ones in better repair (shoulder boards)


                      Pretty straight forward and well worth it since the jacket is in very good condition.

                      My guess on the jacket date is late 1960s, but it could easily be any time in the 1960s.

                      Steve

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Collectinsteve View Post
                        I'm sure you can find it a good new home! All it needs:

                        1. 4x gold Sterne (gold pips)
                        2. 2x silver Handgesticht Kragenspiegel (silver bullion collar tabs)
                        3. 1x silver Handgesticht Armabzeichen (silver bullion eagle/shield arm badge)
                        4. (optional) replace the existing Schulterstück with ones in better repair (shoulder boards)


                        Pretty straight forward and well worth it since the jacket is in very good condition.

                        My guess on the jacket date is late 1960s, but it could easily be any time in the 1960s.

                        Steve
                        I'm with you until point 4.

                        The 'boards are worn but they are/appear to be original to the tunic. I'd leave them (but add back the stars).

                        It's such a nice tunic, I think it deserves to be 'reborn'.

                        But that's only my opinion and I'm a self-confessed nutcase.

                        N

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Thanks for the advice on the missing badges.
                          I didn't know the pips were gold and I would surely have put on silver ones.
                          since it needs to be "reborn",I'll put it up for adoption .
                          Kees

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