Early Bundesmarine NCO visor

[Seewolf]

Hello gentlemen,

a few days ago i received an Bundesmarine visor for senior NCO´s where i believe that i got a very early version of the 50s. It´s not KKB marked and no "big" maker like ISKO or Helmut Rahne but still a very nice piece. On the trapez stands "Die gute blaue Mütze".

Chinstrap is leather, the inner ring only cardboard (see pic) and it has the peaked visor.

Please let me know what do you think about this one. I like it very much, shape looks like the earliest made ones and reminds me to the wartime NCO visors.

Forgot to add....the emblem is originally stitched through the inner cardboard, see pic.

Thanks for looking and interest

[Seewolf]

more pics...

[Seewolf]

and the last ones.....

[Gordon Craig]

Rüdiger,

This cap does not match the early BM visors that I have seen. Early visors are one piece with no sewing around the edge. The gold badge is also of a later vintage. Early ones are a dark gold in colour and later ones a brighter gold like the one in your picture. The cap is obviously a private purchase one possibly made for the sailing clubs. I am always suspect of caps where the lining ins not sewn down completely. Especially at the front. It would appear that the lining of your cap is loose at the front or you would not be able to show the cardboard sides of the cap with the cap badge prongs stuck through it.

Regards,

Gordon

[Tom C.]

im of the opinion that this is a early BM cap

[SprogCollector]

I wouldn't place too much faith in a drawing. It could be a simple assumption by the artist that NCO visors had the same sewn rim as the officer caps -- just minus the embroidery. Note the drawing incorrectly has both men wearing the same embroidered cap badge.

As Gordon has already noted, BM NCO visors (along with very early BW officer visors) shared the same molded visor.

The visor style shown is/was used by Wasserschutz Polizei for decades.

[Seewolf]

Thanks guys,

i don´t want to speak my visor good or bad but is it sure that from the very first beginning only the molded visors were used? I thought that, before the KKB was founded, they used more or less every visor that fitted from different manufactures.

I think it´s a question of believing if visors from this style are early BM or not. You can only be sure having a KKB mark inside, or??

If that one is really bad....no harm for me as i paid not very much

[Tom C.]

I wouldn't place too much faith in a drawing. It could be a simple assumption by the artist that NCO visors had the same sewn rim as the officer caps -- just minus the embroidery. Note the drawing incorrectly has both men wearing the same embroidered cap badge.

As Gordon has already noted, BM NCO visors (along with very early BW officer visors) shared the same molded visor.

The visor style shown is/was used by Wasserschutz Polizei for decades.

not just drawing heres another one exactly the same

[Seewolf]

Wow, nice piece Tom
Is it yours? What maker is it?

[Tom C.]

Wow, nice piece Tom
Is it yours? What maker is it?

i wish it is on another forum Gmic as an early bm visor cap whos owner i think posts here

i can't see why someone would "fake" it bundeswehr militaria is still in its infancy (well kind off)

[uscob]

I wouldn't place too much faith in a drawing. It could be a simple assumption by the artist that NCO visors had the same sewn rim as the officer caps -- just minus the embroidery. Note the drawing incorrectly has both men wearing the same embroidered cap badge.

As Gordon has already noted, BM NCO visors (along with very early BW officer visors) shared the same molded visor.

The visor style shown is/was used by Wasserschutz Polizei for decades.

The Embroidered Badge is no Problen as the "Selbsteinkleider" could buy it on their own Expense.
I have some AF Sidecaps with Yellow Piping and Bullion Bulls Eyes.

[uscob]

Rüdiger,

This cap does not match the early BM visors that I have seen. Early visors are one piece with no sewing around the edge. The gold badge is also of a later vintage. Early ones are a dark gold in colour and later ones a brighter gold like the one in your picture. The cap is obviously a private purchase one possibly made for the sailing clubs. I am always suspect of caps where the lining ins not sewn down completely. Especially at the front. It would appear that the lining of your cap is loose at the front or you would not be able to show the cardboard sides of the cap with the cap badge prongs stuck through it.

Regards,

Gordon

There is a Maritime Supplies Shop In Hamburg where you can buy these Caps, not only for Sailing Clubs, but mostly for the Merchant Marine.
The Cap badge is one of the late Aluminium ones, still used by the BM in these Day's. For an old Cap it must be the early Brass one.

[SprogCollector]

not just drawing heres another one exactly the same

Nice cap but not proven to be BM. I would prefer to see photos of such a cap in BM service. Photographically, I've not seen a BM NCO or early (plain visor) officer cap with a stiched rim. On the other hand, I've seen dozens of WSP caps with this visor style. IMO, the same molded visor was used on all BW-spec caps, including officer caps prior to the introduction of the embroidered visors). Here's a few photos from 1959:

[Seewolf]

I am late....sorry...no sign of desinterest

Many thanks to all, i know believe that it´s NO early BM visor. However, i like this one and it´ll stay here in an extra corner.....

Thanks for the pics of the early BM guys, now i know for what i have to look for.

[Guardian 5]

Kameraden,

Here is a Carl Iskren from June, 1974, that was lovingly bent into shape to meet the personal style of a salty Obermaat named Schneider.

All the best,

TJ