BGS Flight Jacket

[SprogCollector]

Thanks to a tip from fellow forum member CollectingSteve I was able to pick up a green BGS leather flight a few weeks ago. Overall condition is very good but the thing smells terrible -- stale cigarettes and who know what else! It's outside airing out for a few days following a heavy dose of Fabreeze.

It's had shoulderboards sewn down at some point. I don't know if these had loops at the shoulders normally? No signs of any other badging besides a wing on the right breast.

It has a Harro label but no BGS markings of any kind. I was somewhat expecting to see a typical BGS/BW style label somewhere on it.

Compared to a BW leather flight jacket, they are substantially different despite sharing a similar overall look. The leather is thinner and smooth. Likewise the knits are much smoother -- without the pronounced rib-knit pattern of the BW jacket.

It has a button in brown velveton-like removable liner -- a definite plus as the BW jackets aren't very warm.

There is no breast pocket -- two zip-closed hardwarmer pockets are provided instead. The sleeve pocket appears the same as on the BW jacket.

At this point, I'm trying to determine if this was a privately purchased jacket; is a non-BGS/Polizei civilian jacket; or is simply a BGS item that never had a "Bund" or BGS tag on it?

[SprogCollector]

I did a check of some of my reference photos and it looks like at least a few of the leather BGS jackets are definitely Harro jackets -- the zip puller is pretty unique looking.

Here's a comparison shot of the BGS alongside my friends BW jacket. These were shot in Holland -- I needed an intermediary to buy the jacket for me. Seller wouldn't ship outside the EU.

Better pics after the jacket airs out.

[SprogCollector]

Here are some comparison shots with my Luftwaffe jacket.

The BGS jacket does appear to have some traces of a label once being present just below the collar -- faint outline of stitching.

The white label is sewn within the lining of the interior left breast pocket. Unfortunately, I doesn't provide any clues as to the age of the jacket.

[Guardian 5]

SprogCollector - Nice looking jacket; I haven't seen many of these. I love the side by side shots with the Luftwaffe jacket.

Do you know what you need to badge up the BGS jacket? Are you going to?

All the best - TJ

[SprogCollector]

Hi TJ,
It looks like the only badging this particular jacket ever had were shoulderboards and a wing over the right breast (stitch holes clearly visible). I actually need to check with Steve to see what the shoulderboard attachments are supposed to look like. I suspect there were loops at the shoulders and some type of sewn-on square which allowed the button-end of the boards to attach to the jacket. Pure speculation on my part since these pieces are missing.

I'll definitely replace the wing. I just need to research a little to see what type was used -- woven, embroidered, etc. I've seen gold ones around but I think these are Polizei, not BGS?? These are pics you posted a while back but are listed as GSG-9 wings:


No traces of the BGS arm eagle or arc.

This was supposed to be my new wearable jacket which addresses the lack of handwarmer pockets on the grey jacket! Looks like another restoration project!

Chris

[Collectinsteve]

Thanks for the great pics!! Glad you managed to land it. Always nice to see a good piece go to a good home.

Here are pics of my jacket and observations:





Mine had no arm badging or wings. It's impossible to remove such things from a leather jacket without leaving very visible stitch holes. Which means mine never had them at all.

Unfortunately mine has no way of dating it either.

Shoulder rank for BGS is pretty straight forward. It is held down by a sewn on button near the lapel and a small loop near the shoulder seam. Just like the camouflage jackets. You should be able to see evidence of the buttons having been there if you look close enough. If you can see no signs then I would be suspicious there was no rank on it. But I don't know how to explain the small holes by the shoulder seam, therefore I'm guessing you will see signs. Look on both the exterior and interior (sometimes they were sewn through liners, sometimes not).

Steve

[Collectinsteve]

The lower two wings are flight qualification wings, the upper two are (I think) jump certifications. The wings are not GSG-9 specific.

Steve

[SprogCollector]

Steve,
Thanks for your observations. I had a detailed look and it does appear there are holes for where a button was attached. I think the stitch holes near the shoulder are actually where the loops were removed. There are additional stitch holes about where the outboard edges of the boards would be located -- about 3/4 of an inch from the button center. I was half wondering if a second set of loops might have been here.

Thanks for posting pics of your jacket. I can tell from the main puller that your jacket is also a Harro jacket. Regrettably on closer look the main zip on my jacket has been replaced with a YKK zip and YKK puller. Whomever did the work did a pretty good job but there are a few extra stitch marks where they missed the original sewing line slightly.

I've written Harro with several questions. First to see if I can obtain a replacement zipper and Harro puller. Second to see if they can tell me when these jackets were produced and approximately how many were made under contract or sales to individuals.

Here are a few detail shots. Not the best image but you can make out the outline of the wing on the right breast. I saw no stitching on either arm for either BGS eagle, arch, or unit patch.


Left shoulder area showing traces of where the button was attached. Note the additional stitching just below the button. Another set of loops? The lower stitching was pulled out and made a small tear in the leather. I'll repair this when I find matching leather to make some new loops.


The right shoulder area. The loop was cut off without damage. Just some stitch holes. Again there are additional stitch marks just below where the button attaches. The shoulderboard(s) were provided with the jacket but were not the ones supposedly sewn to the jacket. I don't even know if the rank is correct for the past owner.


Thanks again for your comments. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I start putting this back together.

Chris

[Collectinsteve]

Great pics! Well, I think I can see what happened with the rank.

There were loops and buttons in the standard places. The loops were removed. But while this uniform was in use the rank was not only through the loops but hand sewn to the jacket up near the buttons. Maybe to prevent getting snagged on shoulder harness straps?

The replacement zipper sounds like something that was done while the jacket was still in official use. It's not too difficult to break a zipper and a replacement zipper is a lot cheaper than a replacement leather jacket

It would be nice if you got a response from the manufacturer.

Steve

[SprogCollector]

Steve,
Thanks again for your comments. Hopefully I'll hear back from Harro. If not, I'll be searching for a few scraps of BGS leather to make replacement loops.

I've written the seller of the jacket to see if I can get any additional info on the former owner.

This should be a pretty straight forward project.

[SprogCollector]

I heard back from Harro this morning. Unfortunately, they aren't able to help with a replacment zipper. I had asked for an approximate timeframe these jackets were produced but that question wasn't answered. Can't blame them. These jackets are probably ancient history.

As to my project, I've started looking for a suitable replacement zipper. The bottom 3/4 of an inch of the zipper -- the guide and bottom four teeth on the non-slider (right) side have separated from the zipper tape. It appears the zipper has already been replaced once so not really any issue to replace it again. I really wish I could at least find a Harro slider though. I'll probably use a nickel/chrome finished RiRi. Hopefully a close match for BGS blue-green zipper tape is available.

[SprogCollector]

Found these photos online earlier today. Not the greatest but the first clearly shows the leather jacket in use in 2006. Caption refers to Bundespolizei so clearly former BGS but not quite transitioned to the blue uniforms yet.



Not good detail but most of the flight crew appear to be wearing the leather jacket. Military in grey on the left and dark green to the right.

[Collectinsteve]

Nice pics!

What's interesting to see here is the jacket design doesn't appear to have changed much, which means we'll have a hard time dating ours I would say ours predate the change to the standardized green rank (2002?) because ours were setup for a button. The green type only used buttons at the very beginning, which was about 20+ years before BGS ranks were abandoned.

Blue uniform started issue in 2008, IIRC.

I think I sense the need for a BGS flight suit now

Steve

[SprogCollector]

Steve: Can you check out the zippers on your jacket. I think the zipper tapes on the factory-applied zippers are black. Just want to be sure. My replaced main zip is a #5/6 zipper on a blue-green tape and it looks like the pocket/sleeve zips are slightly larger #7/8 zips on black. I spent a fair amount of time looking for BGS blue-green tapes when, upon review, it looks like the only blue-green zip on my jacket is the replacement zipper.

On the subject of badging: In the above photos, you can see two (presumably) officers wearing gold wings. As none of the photos show wings on the leather jackets, I'm somewhat confused over which color wing should be on the jacket? I also found it interesting that no wings are worn on the BGS leather jackets despite very clear indications they were once on mine. Possibly some type of regulation change? Conversely, most of the cloth flight jackets seem to have full BGS badging -- wing, shoulder arc, and shield.

My jacket included a pair of senior NCO shoulderboards. Presuming (always dangerous!) that the wing is a (pilot) qualification badge, did BGS have NCO pilots? Alternatively, did all BGS aircrew (pilots and non-pilots) wear the wing?

[Collectinsteve]

I'll have a look at the zips when I manage to dig it out. I've been doing a lot of digging lately!

I don't know about the BGS wings, but usually the color denotes seniority/skill level. So maybe gold is a senior pilot's qualification badge.

Why sometimes worn and not worn? My experience is the regulations mean one thing, what is actually done is another. I can easily see a pilot, who is otherwise authorized to wear the badge, putting it on a jacket contrary to regulations. Or it could be that wear is authorized but for some reason most pilots opt not to put it on their jacket.

Either way, I think you should assume yours had wings on it while in use. If you want to play it safe, go with the silver type.

Steve