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**PASSAUER8884** · 05-21-2011, 08:46 PM

Its interesting to note how several of those men pictured were in the Luftwaffe during the war, and how they later were in the Heer during thier post-war service. My dad who was in the Heer in the mid-late 1960s remembered alot of them, mostly officers at that point and the occasional senior NCO.

**RedCatcher1986** · 05-21-2011, 09:25 PM

I wonder how a lot of that played out, were they reinstated to their respective branches or were they given a chance to select a branch or what? Ive often wondered how that selection process went. I thought former members of the S.S. were barred from service in the post war military due to the S.S. being a criminal organization yet as shown here there were a couple members of the S.S. allowed to serve in the Bundeswehr

**PASSAUER8884** · 05-21-2011, 09:39 PM

Good point, yet it happened apperently. One anecdote I have of is years ago talking to a good freind of ours in Germany who did his service in the 1960-61 time frame, while looking through his album he pointed out a "Hauptmann Goebbels" and mentioned how " If he tapped on his boots in the morning with his walking stick it was going to be a bad day". I didnt make the connection then but I'm going to call him and ask if there is a relation to who I think it is......

**RedCatcher1986** · 05-21-2011, 09:51 PM

I recently read an article about the grandson of Rudolf Höss the Camp Commandant of Auschwitz, trying to deal with the weight of sharing the bloodline of his last name following the war. Even though he's not in the German Armed Forces, I wonder what the Germans take is on persons who have last names of such infamous figures or their descendants serving in the ranks of the Armed Forces?

And Id be interested in hearing the response you get to your Hauptmann Goebbels inquiry

**PASSAUER8884** · 05-21-2011, 10:16 PM

It seems to vary from person to person, but you are right, there are alot of negative feelings and issues that still come up to this day, unless you have a common name its hard to escape the connection.

As far as Wehrmacht in the BW goes, the other thing I have been told by my dad and others is that the "old hands" who were Wehrmacht veterans often were frustrated on how the new army was run. They hated how "lax" things got, how sloppy the troops often looked (the infamous German "hair force" of the late 60s early 70s) and how little reverence there was for all things military related at the time.

**RedCatcher1986** · 05-21-2011, 10:26 PM

I dont blame them. You look at the history of the German armed forces and they take great pride in drill & ceremony especially with their influence from Prussian military tradition and following 1945, all of that went away as the previous regime corrupted it. You can see the same thing in the United States Armed Forces, veterans who served in the military up until the end of the Cold War era generally have a lot of negative things to say about the way the military is run now adays and how laxed everything has become.

IMO things could have been done slightly differently I think there was too much influence from the Allied armed forces into the German military which overshadowed the Germans traditional ceremony. You look at modern Russia, they tend to discard everything from the Soviet era and theyre returning to a lot more ceremonial and traditional influence from the era of the Czars. What would be wrong with doing the same in Germany?

The parades and theatrics that the Germans took such great pride in are all but gone and with the average person still as a friend of mine put it 'Feels sorry for Germanys involvement in World War II' I think the shift was beyond the realm of acceptable for most Wehrmacht veterans.

**PASSAUER8884** · 05-21-2011, 10:44 PM

I can kind of understand why (to an extent) keep in mind most of the grunts in the BW of that era were conscripts and short-timers that were born during or right after the war. In many cases all they saw or remembered was hardship, death and destruction caused by the military and war. They were young men at a time when the economy was booming and scociety was changing everywhere and the professionals in the military who had served during the old days had to balance this all while being "politically and scocialy progessive"

Of course I'm generalizing. There where plenty of men who where proud or at least knew why thier service was important. Its why im so interested in the BW from that era. Its a weird blend of old/new ideas and traditions, scandals and accomplishments and technical innovations.

**RedCatcher1986** · 05-21-2011, 10:50 PM

My collecting of the Bundeswehr focuses more on the 1980s and I doubt very many Wehrmacht veterans remained in the Bundeswehr ranks however none the less Im still interested in their views. I also tend to ask myself how they must have felt in regards to their nation, the country to which they fought for on various fronts during the war; was now divided. I wonder how Bundeswehr Wehrmacht veterans often viewed their new 'East German' adversaries. I could imagine with hostility seeing as they served the Soviet Union to which committed many atrocities of their own against the German people.

Im also interested especially in the career of Erich Hartmann in post war Germany

**PASSAUER8884** · 05-21-2011, 11:07 PM

Agreed, things had leveled out by the 80s. There may have been a few senior officers left that may have been young veterans of the war but for the most part the Bundeswehr was now run by the new generation.

**RedCatcher1986** · 05-21-2011, 11:09 PM

I wonder how rare it is to find Wehrmacht related items in Bundeswehr service on the market. I was offered a Bundeswehr tunic of a Wehrmacht veteran a while ago and at the time I didnt think too much of it now Im finding more of an interest in the early days of the Bundeswehr.

I read somewhere that it wasnt even until recently that the Bundeswehr's Wachbataillon finally got rid of it's inventory of k98 Mausers with Nazi stamps on them for use during ceremonial events.

**SprogCollector** · 05-22-2011, 03:11 PM

The Bundesluftwaffe had its share of former wartime Luftwaffe veterans serving into the postwar years. I think with regards to three of your photos (Hellmut Kerutt, Rudolf Witzig, and Friedrich-August Freiherr von der Heydte ), the officers shown are Fallschirmjägers. Fallis were part of the Luftwaffe during WW2 but were part of the Heer in the Bundeswehr.

The remaining one (Günther Bahr) is interesting. He was a wartime nightfighter pilot (3 day victories and 34 night victories). Possibly he served in some non-flying post prior to the end of the war which ended up under Heer control in the BW?

**RedCatcher1986** · 05-22-2011, 03:40 PM

I was wondering about that when did the Paratrooper Corps transition from Luftwaffe control to Army control?

**Gordon Craig** · 05-22-2011, 04:03 PM

RedCatcher1986,

The Fallis were always part of the Heer in the BW. Never any connection to the Luftwaffe. Early in WWII there were some Heer paratroops but they were eventually transfered to the Luftwaffe.

Regards,

Gordon

**RedCatcher1986** · 05-22-2011, 04:29 PM

Thanks for clearing that up for me Gordon.

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