Antique Mall Find - BGS helmet?

[usmedalman]

Found this helmet at a local antique mall. From my initial research on this forum I think it might be BGS, but don't know enough about helmets to say for certain.

The helmet is overall a dark green color, but it looks to have been black origionally, or maybe the primer coat was black, not sure of how these were painted. The exterior is in very good condition with the paint nearly 100% except for wear around the vent holes and rim. The interior leather is in outstanding condition but the inside of the dome has some light surface rust. There is a small remains of a black rubber piece which I suspect may have been for padding.

Could someone give me a good identification on the model and when it was used, and by whom?

Thanks

[Collectinsteve]

Hard to tell for sure, but it could very well be BGS. Could also be from a Polizei force as many used helmets with similar paint colors. Perhaps someone here can tell for sure.

Look carefully for any stamp marks either in the steel or inked onto the leather. Any clues are better than no clues

Steve

[usmedalman]

There is 64 stamped on the rear inside lip of the helmet. No letters or logos, just 64.

[Collectinsteve]

64 = 1964 (most likely!)

Someone who has more experience with 1960s BRD helmets can hopefully help out. I think the only way to know is by the paint color and if there is a Polizei sticker on the side (which obviously isn't the case here).

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

usmedalman,

Hard to tell just what this helmet was originally. The 64 is probably the shell size. The makers mark would be to the left of the 64, as viewed from the front of the helmet, and most commonly would be LS in a double circle but smaller in size than the 64. The makers marks in my helmets are very lightly stamped and may not be visible in your helmet because it is covered in paint. I can say with some confidence that this helemt has been repainted. From what you say, probably black first and then green. Unlikely to find a helmet with good paint on most of the surfaces and all rusty on the inside where the liner sits. The rubber section that you mentioned on the top is not complete. Some of the rubber is partially missing. The majority of BGS helmets of this vintage had a matt finish and not a shiny one.

Regards,

Gordon

[usmedalman]

usmedalman,

Hard to tell just what this helmet was originally. The 64 is probably the shell size. The makers mark would be to the left of the 64, as viewed from the front of the helmet, and most commonly would be LS in a double circle but smaller in size than the 64. The makers marks in my helmets are very lightly stamped and may not be visible in your helmet because it is covered in paint. I can say with some confidence that this helemt has been repainted. From what you say, probably black first and then green. Unlikely to find a helmet with good paint on most of the surfaces and all rusty on the inside where the liner sits. The rubber section that you mentioned on the top is not complete. Some of the rubber is partially missing. The majority of BGS helmets of this vintage had a matt finish and not a shiny one.

Regards,

Gordon

Thanks for the additional input Gordon. So, like with WW2 helmets, the 64 is the shell size, not a manufacture date?

As a collector with 30+ years of experience I can say with confidence that the repaint is very old and that the helmet was worn extensively after it was painted (the paint around the entire edge of the helment is worn off down to bare metal and the "patina" of the bare metal is a uniform dull brown, wear point on the chin strap bails are smooth and shiny from the rubbing on the leather chin strap, etc.). Also the rust is not as bad as it looks and suggests to me that the helmet spent years stored upside down in a garage, attic or basment where it got slightly wet a time or two.

I have no experience with post WW2 helmets so, when you say "of this vintage" what time frame are you talking about -- 50s, 60s,???

Thanks again for taking the time to reply

[Guardian 5]

usmedalman - From what I can tell, you have a BGS Helmet. German helmet expert Ludwig Baer describes this as a Stahlhelm des BGS mit Luftlöchern. The liner appears to be Innenausstattung 53. As Gordon pointed out, many of these helmets were made by the firm Linneman & Schnetzer (LS).

There is another model that lacks the air vent. This model was very unpopular as it had a tendency to make the wearer's head extremely hot during heavy exertion and in those rare episodes of hot weather during the German summer.

In collecting circles, these helmets are sometimes described as the M-35/53. This nomenclature is derived from the wartime Model 35 as modified and manufactured begining in 1953.

These helmets were used from the 50s to the 90s. They wore sometimes worn with a heavy camo net or maneuver bands, similar to the wartime models. Post unification, they were replaced with a riot helmet.

I'm not sure why there was black paint on your lid. Perhaps a re-enactor got a hold of the helmet to convert it into some kind of wartime helmet and then came to his senses?

All the best - TJ

[ReinerMB42]

BGS Helmet

Gordon,

you´re right. The 64 is the shell size.

Best regards

Reiner

[Gordon Craig]

usmedalman,

After reviewing what you and my collegues have said plus looking at helmets in my collection I still do not beleive that I can definitely say this is a BGS helmet. While I agree with what Baer has said in his Volume 2, as posted by TJ, the black and white picture in Baer's book doesn't give any indication of the colour of BGS helmets. He does illustrate both the M53 model with and without the air holes and in different finishes. One with a shiny smooth surface and the other with a rough textured surface. Period photos show both surface finishes in wear although from personal research the helmets with the rough textured surface seem to more prevalent. Especially in the field. These photos are usually in black and white as well.
One thing that your post identified for me was that these helmets can rust inside the dome with the rest of the helmet staying in excellent condition. Two of my helmets show rust in this area. It prompted me to turn on the dehumidifier in the rooms I keep my collection in this morning. I'll obviously have to take additional steps to prevent further rust problems in the future.
I think it would help other who might read this thread in the future to post some pictures of BGS and polizei helmets for comparison purposes. I don't own a helmet of this style which I can identify as BGS but Steve posted a picture some time ago that he took in the BGS museum which would be a good reference here. Undoubtedly, everyone who sees this picture will see the helmets as a slightly different shade of green due to variations in software and hardware but there isn't anything that we can do about that. I'll continue with helmets from my collection for reference for polizei.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The polizei helmets I will post pictures of are those that can be definitely associated with specific state BePo. First up is Baden-Wurtemburg. Note the location of the shell size and the makers mark next to it.

[Gordon Craig]

Markings in the helmet and the liner.

[Gordon Craig]

Next up is Hamburg. Their helmets were painted blue as you can see from the photos. Hamburg was the only state to use decals on both sides of the helmet. Except for Bremen.

[Gordon Craig]

The interior of this Hamburg helmet showing some rust and the liner markings.

[Gordon Craig]

Makers mark ans shell size markings. Liners in size 53-57 were used in shell size 64.

[Gordon Craig]

The last helmet is another blue one as worn by the Berlin BePo. These helmets are usually marked P.P Bln. GB in an oval on the rough underside of the liner but not always. I have one helmet this marked and one that is not.