Shoulder Board Fun

[Gordon Craig]

TJ,

I don't see any reason why the BRD would have made special boards for wear by the ex VOPO police. The regular BRD Polizei boards work very well with the DDR method of attaching buttons. Here is an NVA strichtarn uniform as worn by the ex VOPO once they became part of the BRD Polizei but before they could be issued BRD Polizei uniforms. I have pictures of these uniforms in wear some place and when I can find them I'll post them.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Shoulder boards and Berlin Polizei arm badge.

[Forseti]

*lol* thank you! That was exact what i ve ordered.

I never understood those ranks (Stabsgefreiter and up). I nmy opinion only ranks to pay more money to "eduacted" personal. When we (in 1992) as Wehrpflichtige came to the Bundeswehr, we just had been Schützen, Funker, Kanoniere etc. (means no rank - just soldiers).

People with some reputition (for example eduacated mechanics etc.) became Hauptgefreiter from the first day on. We called them Pommesbude. They had nothing to tell us or nothing to order us but became more money.

Thats all I can tell.

So the Pommesshow goes on ;-)

regards
Michael

Forseti - I went large on your order of fries and went with a Luftwaffe Oberstabsgefreiter.

When I left the BRD in 1990 this rank didn't exist. When I came back in 2001 it was there.

What brought about the creation of this very unusual rank? What kind of responsibility does this rank have compared to a sergeant?

Thanks - TJ

[Guardian 5]

Michael - I was happy to fill your order of pommes. Every once in a while I put mayo on my fries here in the U.S., usually to the shock and horror of my dinner guests...

I appreciate your information on the senior enlisted ranks and your tasty knickname for their rank insignia.

Steve - Some journeyman's work done in an effort to establish the clear identity of the those hard to come by felt backed chevrons. Thank you.

It's been a while since I've seen the Polizei board with detachable stars.

Gordon - Nice looking VOPO tunic! It's interesting how Steve noted the relative rarity of the button-up Polizei board and low and behold, there's a set on your transitional Polizei tunic.

I would have to say that my boards were DDR produced vice BRD made. I wonder now if they were made to address the shortage of the button-up style Steve mentioned since they would have been so easy to fabricate quickly. I may just go ahead and post these boards on the DDR Forum to see what else I can learn about them.

All the best - TJ

[Collectinsteve]

Steve - Some journeyman's work done in an effort to establish the clear identity of the those hard to come by felt backed chevrons. Thank you.

I just wish I knew for sure which is what! I'm pretty sure the stripes with the straight braid are post 1963, the ones with the zig zagged braid are pre 1963. Colors, backings, etc. are what trip me up besides some of the obvious ones.

I would have to say that my boards were DDR produced vice BRD made. I wonder now if they were made to address the shortage of the button-up style Steve mentioned since they would have been so easy to fabricate quickly.

I think that's definitely part of it. The button through types were, as far as I can see, used right around the 1976/78 transition time. Early 1980s tops. When the DDR forces were incorporated they would need tons of ranks of all types that could button through. It is probable that stocks did not exist and therefore had to be created new.

Another part of it probably has to do with West German economic policy in the early days of Reunification. The worst thing would be for everybody in East Germany to be "on the dole" all at once. With the utter collapse of the government that was a real possibility. Therefore, effort was made to give the German workers SOMETHING to do to earn money. A factory that previously made DDR shoulder boards would be a perfect place to bring a contract to for new shoulder boards for former DDR forces. And they would use the materials they had on hand as much as possible. When examining the boards that TJ and I have, you can see more similarity to DDR boards than BRD boards.

Well, in the end we know these boards exist and they certainly weren't made for BRD forces. They weren't likely made for the fun of it either, so it's logical to conclude that they were at least intended to be worn by converted DDR forces. Whether they were or not... I can't say since I've seen no evidence either way.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

TJ,

I see your point about your boards being made in the East instead of in factories that were already making BRD polizei boards. Also Steve has a good point about the number of boards needed to outfit the ex VOPO. One thing that Steve said won't work though. Button on boards won't work on ex VOPO uniforms. Shoulder boards were held on using the Soviet system of using what looks like a small shoe lace threaded through one hole in the tunic, through the eye on the shank of the button, back through a second hole and then tied off inside the tunic to hold the button/shoulder board in place. This means there is only one loop at the arm end of the shoulder seam. Hence you only need a small hole at the end of the board as shown in your photo.
I have never seen shoulder boards like those you say were suposedly made to be worn by the ex VOPO during the interim period. Not that I doubt what you are saying but they are new to me. Interesting to see what is said on the DDR forum. I don't beleive we have ever discussed these boards over there.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

My last post started me thinking about what is refered to on the DDR Forum as the "transition period". That length of time starting at Oct 1 1989 and lasting for approximately two years. During this time frame, the integration of the former DDR into the BRD as five new states took place. The old DDR had to go from a single autonomous area into several separate ones.
My train of thought was started by our discussion of "BRD Police" boards made in the East for wear by ex VOPO members. In fact, there is no BRD Police force. Police services in the BRD are under the administrative and operational control of the individual states. It must have been a huge job to set up these new states to function the way the BRD states had been functioning since the 50s. No doubt this job was done by the BRD as the means of doing this sort of thing did not exist within the recreated states from the DDR. Just some thoughts while washing my kitchen floor!

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Good thoughts and, hopefully, a clean floor

Maybe our comrades over in the DDR Forum have access to photos of the transition period? I've seen very little myself. I would love to see a picture of ex-Grenztruppen in BGS uniforms, especially.

Gordon,

I hope you can locate those photos. I'm guessing that the detail won't be sufficient to distinguish between the old BRD boards and those produced in the former DDR. They look very similar except when up close, or looking at them from the back.

To clarify about which BRD boards I was describing... we're talking about the same type. Specifically, the ones buttoned to your Strichtarn jacket, which is also on the right of the photo TJ uploaded (below). This is the type that I think was only made for the earliest of BRD Polizei uniforms (roughly 1978 timeframe).

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

I have never seen GT in BGS uniforms. I was thinking about that today. A number of the senior GT people were put on trial for the shootings that took place at the border but it wasn't pushed very hard. I have never come across any material which talked about how the GT were integrated into the BGS if indeed they were.
The VOPO seems to have gone away from their DDR type uniforms quickly to distance them from the old regime. There was a big difference between policing in the DDR and in the BRD. In the DDR the VOPO was used more to keep the people under control than they were to fight crime It was a tough time for VOPO officers because BRD police officers were put in charge in many areas. They had to be retrained in the policing methods of the BRD which were quite different than the DDR.
I don't know that you will get many answers about the shoulder boards on the DDR Forum but is probably worth TJs time to post some questions there.

Regards,

Gordon