Flakjacket US M55 model made by Schuberth Werke

[michelwijnand]

I just bought this vest, and was wondering if anyone has more info on it.
It doesn't seem to me to be made for US-troops as the description is in German, but it follows the specs of the USMC M1955 vest, aside from small details like not having rings on the bottom for attaching M1910-hook equipment.
I don't have the vest yet as it has to be shipped, but maybe someone knows something abot for whom it was meant and was used (if used at all)



Cheers,
Michel

[hoover]

Very strange. Never seen this type. I am in doubt that it is made for the Budneswehr, maybe for the BGS or Police? Or a prototype for the Bundeswehr?

Great find!

Bye
Frank

[Collectinsteve]

Hi Michel!

I have often wondered why we see so few flak vests in the 1950s and 1960s for countries other than the United States. Cost is surely one of the reasons, but I can't believe that is the only reason. Surely other countries must have had some, even if in limited supply or experimental trials!

Which is why this flak vest is soooo interesting!

It is difficult to tell form the pictures, but the cloth looks to be early BW olive gray. The snaps, I assume, are going to turn out to be pebble grain. The zipper, from what I can see, also looks like early BW zippers. Being based on a US design is also compatible with he idea of it being BW since there is a tradition of US influence. But I've never seen any documentation of a flak vest for BW!

When the jacket comes in, please let us know more details

Steve

[michelwijnand]

vest

When the vest arrives I'll post new pictures and what the materials are like, and if there are more differences with the US model.
Another vest was also offered to me, it was not German though, but produced in Belgium at Wittock-van landeghem, I think for Holland, lately a lot of vests were offered to me for some reason :P
And I also have a vest produced at Zunblindage in Belgium for export to Croatia in the Balkan wars, and I have a BW 70's backpack which was given to me by someone from Croatia who used it there

Cheers,
Michel

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Since the label is in the German language it would seem logical to assume that this vest was made for a country that speaks German. That limits the location to just a few spots. I do not think it was made for the BW or it would have a label we would all recognize and the one on this jacket does not fit a BW type label. The most logical place for it to have been used would be Austria since they used so much U.S. type gear in the early days of the Bundesheer. I searched for BH flak jackets and didn't find anything like this. They did use a copy of a U.S. flak jacket which looked like the one below.
Also, this jacket doesn't seem to offer enough protection for use by a soldier. It clearly states it is only good for protection agains small calibre weapons. That would point more to use by a police force than for a military organization.

Regards,

Gordon

[ReinerMB42]

Schuberth Vest

Hello all,

the Schuberth-Werke used to build a lot of experimental Equipment for the federal german agencies. The most of it exists only as Prototypes. IMO this
is one of this items. As an export item it would have a manufacturers label,
not only an caution advice like this. Seems to be planned for the BW?

Best regards

Reiner

[michelwijnand]

Hello all,

the Schuberth-Werke used to build a lot of experimental Equipment for the federal german agencies. The most of it exists only as Prototypes. IMO this
is one of this items. As an export item it would have a manufacturers label,
not only an caution advice like this. Seems to be planned for the BW?

Best regards

Reiner

This was what I think too, there are also a lot of the kevlar helmet shell proto's on ebay from the SStephan shop, so it would be only a matter of time until something like this would pop up.

And Gordon, I think as the USMC M55 vest was also only against shrapnel, it would automaticaly make this one the same sort of protection, and in that era almost all flakvests were shrapnel protective I think.
I also have one of those Austrian vests like the one you posted, it does vaguely resemble the PASGT in some ways, but in a side by side comparison they're still quite different.
Also this is a copy of something from 1955, I don't know when it was copied, but if it was meant for Austria it should have been in the same era as the Fleckerlteppich gear, which seems weird to me as this vest is olivgreen,
but I still have to see the details like the material and other things for myself when it arrives, maybe there's even another small label or something hidden somewhere, which would clear something up maybe

Cheers,
Michel

[Collectinsteve]

There are basically three types of vests:

1. Flak -> protects from shell fragments and possibly low velocity rounds such as 9mm

2. Ballistic -> protects from small arms rounds and edged weapons, but not necessarily shell fragments. There is a VERY wide range of levels of protection.

3. Combo -> basically a Flak jacket with "inserts" ("plates") to give some amount of ballistic protection, usually front and rear but sometimes also sides.

Early on protection was generally #1 only because steel was the only available material at the time to offer even limited ballistic protection. It wasn't until laminated ceramic/Kevlar plates came into being that ballistic protection became viable. The Russians used titanium until fairly recently, for example. The combo arrangement wasn't viable until VERY recently because of weight/bulk issues.

So yes, early US flak jackets used in the 1950s and 1960s were good only against fragmentation as a rule. Which was actually better than one might think because statistically somewhere around 75% of all casualties caused on the modern battlefield come from shell fragments. Meaning, if a soldier had to choose between protection from fragments or small arms, statistically he'd do better taking protection from fragments.

The Austrian vest Gordon pictures is fairly recent. I think that's part of the KAZ NEU uniform, which means post 2002 timeframe. Before that the Austrians used French and German body armor when on deployments. French most commonly.

So far I think the best theory is this is a BW prototype. That might prove to be wrong, of course, but it's a good first guess.

BTW, if this was designed for export the label would have been in the language of the country being exported to. At the very least there would be a second tag in the native language of the receiving country. Usually, at least. If this was going to an Arabic speaking country it would probably be in English regardless of who produced it.

Steve

[michelwijnand]

Yes I've seen the vest on presentation pictures with the CQC tactical vest, but I have only 1 picture ever of this vest in country anywhere, even in Afghanistan the French vest was in use, and I also have 1 pic of a green version of that same vest, and a very basic looking vest but with pockets for big plates and a few modular strips like on the CQC gear.
Also, the Russians actually still use titanium, the regular low speed infantry still get 6B3, 4 or 5 vests which mostly have titanium plates, and some have ceramic, sometimes even mixed.
They used aluminium at some point too, but found out it was cr*p :P
And a number of newer vests like some versions of the Modul still have a very big steel or titanium plate, and are heavier than almost any vest I know of,
although I have that Belgian made vest for Croatia which weighs 23 kilos, and has steel plates.

Cheers,
Michel

[Collectinsteve]

Steel plates are an option any country can manufacture, but oh boy... not very useful for infantry!

Yeah, the Russians have been very slow to upgrade their infantry. Many soldiers are still see wearing old Soviet era steel helmets, for example. There has been a lot of fear in some circles in the West of Russian modernization attempts, but so far it's been mostly hot air and very little actual progress towards transforming the Russian Army into a modern, professional force.

But that's getting a bit off topic

Hopefully when you get this vest we gain some new information to help us figure out what it is or at least what it isn't!

Steve

[michelwijnand]

Hehe, I guess I wandered around too much at the ComBlock section :P
Meanwhile, the vest arrived today! And it's a quite huge size actually

Pebbled butons, OPTI zipper, and the fabric really reminds me of the earlier parka's, colourwise and the fabric sort itself.
On the bottom is a strip to attach gear to with some sort of attachment system, maybe they thought about adopting alice clips or something similar?

The vest has all the plates and armor in, nylon plates like the original I believe, at least it's very light, so that you won't bother about the weight of the vest when you die because it is weak :s





Cheers,
Michel

[Collectinsteve]

Wow!

I think you have something very, very interesting. The details convince me that this was intended for Bundeswehr (Heer) use. Either as a special issue item or as a trial for a general issue item.

I wish you could get a date off this somewhere!

Steve

[michelwijnand]

I wish I could find a date too, there's only the one label in it that I already posted.
Also there seem to be some signs of usage, like on the shoulder, the buttstock-stop is scuffed a bit, and some other parts are too.
Anyways I'm happy I bought it, it was a last 3-seconds bid on ebay.

Cheers,
Michel

[hoover]

In Schusters book "Das Ausstattungssoll der Heeresangehörigen der Budneswehr von 1955 bis 2010" is this vest mentuioned as a Schuberth-prototype for the Bundeswehr.

[michelwijnand]

Thanks, any chance of a date on the vest?

Cheers,
Michel