Sprogcollector,
It is rare to find a grey leather flight jacket with the original insignia in place. I think we need to add some basic facts here. Early grey leather flight jackets had the insignia sewn into place. The crests etc sewn to these jackets were sewn right through the orange lining. It was not unusual for jackets to be reissued or for new crests etc to be sewn to a jacket if an aircrew member was transfered to another squadron so you can find these jackets with the sewing marks of more than one crest in a specific location. When the jackets were declared surplus they had a large A stamped on the makers tag. A jacket with the original crest etc. sewn into place should not have a large A stamped inside.
Later grey leather flight jackets had the crest etc. attached with velcro. The velco backings were sewn to the jackets and then the crests were attached. The velcro backings were the same shape as the crest etc. These later issue jackets were sent to surplus with the crests removed but the velcro backing still in place.
Putting insignia on a flight jacket requires a considerable amount of research. For example, to correctly badge a leather jacket, you need to know what aircraft was being flown during the specific period that a squadron crest was worn. Some squardons changed crest designs over the years. Other were struck off strength and could only have existed in a certain time frame. Lots of crests have been reproduced as they are a popular collecting area. You would need to be sure the crests that you bought were authentic. You also need to decide on what rank to attach to the jacket, if rank is not already present. We have discussed this topic at length in the past and there was no specific rank insignia for the grey leather jackets. Sometimes the slip on rank insignia was sewn on as it came. Other times the tongue part would be cut off the top part sewn to the jacket sleeve.
The picture of the chap wearing two wings is from an official BW pamphlet. He is not wearing two different levels of pilot wings. He is wearing pilot wings and what appears to be Weapons Officers Wings.
I hope that some of these comments help.
Regards,
Gordon
It is rare to find a grey leather flight jacket with the original insignia in place. I think we need to add some basic facts here. Early grey leather flight jackets had the insignia sewn into place. The crests etc sewn to these jackets were sewn right through the orange lining. It was not unusual for jackets to be reissued or for new crests etc to be sewn to a jacket if an aircrew member was transfered to another squadron so you can find these jackets with the sewing marks of more than one crest in a specific location. When the jackets were declared surplus they had a large A stamped on the makers tag. A jacket with the original crest etc. sewn into place should not have a large A stamped inside.
Later grey leather flight jackets had the crest etc. attached with velcro. The velco backings were sewn to the jackets and then the crests were attached. The velcro backings were the same shape as the crest etc. These later issue jackets were sent to surplus with the crests removed but the velcro backing still in place.
Putting insignia on a flight jacket requires a considerable amount of research. For example, to correctly badge a leather jacket, you need to know what aircraft was being flown during the specific period that a squadron crest was worn. Some squardons changed crest designs over the years. Other were struck off strength and could only have existed in a certain time frame. Lots of crests have been reproduced as they are a popular collecting area. You would need to be sure the crests that you bought were authentic. You also need to decide on what rank to attach to the jacket, if rank is not already present. We have discussed this topic at length in the past and there was no specific rank insignia for the grey leather jackets. Sometimes the slip on rank insignia was sewn on as it came. Other times the tongue part would be cut off the top part sewn to the jacket sleeve.
The picture of the chap wearing two wings is from an official BW pamphlet. He is not wearing two different levels of pilot wings. He is wearing pilot wings and what appears to be Weapons Officers Wings.
I hope that some of these comments help.
Regards,
Gordon
Originally posted by SprogCollector
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Interesting comments! These jackets are all listed for sale at a dealer site. So, basically it's unlikely that the improperly attached unit patches are original to the jackets?
I found a few images showing the Heer wing in wear on the service uniform which does appear somewhat darker than the grey jacket so, as noted, my wings might just be from a batch with a different shade of grey.
For the silver-grade of wing, I found this issue on an earlier thread which clearly shows the silver as the same color as the rest of the embroidery. I found the double-wing to be interesting. I'm not sure how common this practice is or whether this is merely some type of unrelated photo? US practice is that former non-rated aircrew would never wear their non-pilot wings together with their rated pilot wings. US pilots qualified by more than one branch could wear their 'extra' wings above the upper right pocket.
When I was attending helicopter training at Fort Rucker, Alabama (1980s) there was a sizeable contingent of BW pilot trainees -- some Heer and some Luftwaffe. Most were junior NCOs. Does the Bundeswehr still have NCO pilots or are these trainees commissioned upon completion of their training?
My last observation is that in looking through the photos I have (not a lot of them), I have yet to find a photo showing a Heer pilot wearing wings on his leather jacket. All seem to have the olive nametape on the left side and a shield-type unit crest on the right side. Again, this is from a small smpling of photos so maybe not a very accurate picture of real-world practices.
I found a few images showing the Heer wing in wear on the service uniform which does appear somewhat darker than the grey jacket so, as noted, my wings might just be from a batch with a different shade of grey.
For the silver-grade of wing, I found this issue on an earlier thread which clearly shows the silver as the same color as the rest of the embroidery. I found the double-wing to be interesting. I'm not sure how common this practice is or whether this is merely some type of unrelated photo? US practice is that former non-rated aircrew would never wear their non-pilot wings together with their rated pilot wings. US pilots qualified by more than one branch could wear their 'extra' wings above the upper right pocket.
When I was attending helicopter training at Fort Rucker, Alabama (1980s) there was a sizeable contingent of BW pilot trainees -- some Heer and some Luftwaffe. Most were junior NCOs. Does the Bundeswehr still have NCO pilots or are these trainees commissioned upon completion of their training?
My last observation is that in looking through the photos I have (not a lot of them), I have yet to find a photo showing a Heer pilot wearing wings on his leather jacket. All seem to have the olive nametape on the left side and a shield-type unit crest on the right side. Again, this is from a small smpling of photos so maybe not a very accurate picture of real-world practices.
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