Bundeswehr (?) group photo - help!

[photo-war]

Hello! This photo is in photo album among WW1 and WW2 images and there are some questions about it.

1) Are they Bundeswehr soldiers?
2) Any idea on possible date when it was taken?
3) Any thoughts on branch of service?



thanks for looking!

[Collectinsteve]

Very nice picture! Yes, this is early Bundeswehr. Timeframe is likely 1957, though it's tough to date it exactly because of overlaps of different uniform styles. The uniform went through several changes between 1955 and 1959. It's certainly not 1955 and I don't think it is likely to be 1956.

There's no way to determine branch of service or unit affiliation. Branch was determined by color of the collar tabs, unit affiliation was generally not displayed on this type of uniform (exceptions I know of are FJ and GJ).

Steve

[photo-war]

Steve thank you very much for very informative input!

[Asbjoern]

Most likely it can be dated in the time 1957 to 1959. Beside the coller tabs, which where reinvented in 1957 some of the guys wear ribbon bars. Depending on the size of the bars and the age of the guys these are denazified awards from WW 2 which where allowed to be worn from 1957 on (I don`t think that any kind of award was worn befor 1957...). 1959 because the new 4 pocket stile tunic for the mess dress plus a new belt where introduced in this year. So at least some of the professionels would have worn a new stile uniform after this date...

Jens

[Guardian 5]

Alexander - What a wonderful photo. Thanks for sharing it.

I don't have much to add to what my fellow forum have already stated, but I haven't seen many photos of senior NCOs wearing ribbon bars on the "affenjacke" (monkey suit).

Thanks again,
TJ

[Asbjoern]

As stated above the period in which this picture may have been taken is very short... while searching for other information I stumbeled over the "Ordensgesetz der Bundesrepublik". Before this "award-law" - which gave the guys in the picture the possibility to wear thier awards of WW 2 in a denazified version - passed legislation is in juli 1957. Afterwards more detailed regulations had to be set up, then the stuff had to be produced...I don`t think that those ribbon bars where whidespread before late in 1957... not long before the first 4 pocket tunics where issued from 1958 on! My `59 dating for the new stile uniform seems to be a bit late ... so at least there is only a period of less then a year in which this combination (Affenjacke + ribbon bars) was "up to date"

Jens

[Collectinsteve]

Jens,

I agree with you that it is odd to see so many men wearing the ribbon bar with this uniform all in one picture. It could be that one soldier got his and the other men in his unit did not want to be left out? Or perhaps they put in a group order at the same time? No matter what the reasons it this is an unusual photo!

Steve