Two Visors, please help.

[Jon. H]

Hello BDR collector's.

I am a TR collector, but i couldn't say no when i saw these visors a few years back.
But i have no idea what they are, police perhaps?

Visor.jpg

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1433529[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1433530[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1433531[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1433532[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1433533[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1433534[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1433535[/ATTACH]

[Towarish]

Hello Jon,
unfortunately I can't see your photos.

[Collectinsteve]

Hmm... the pictures are showing up fine for me.

Jon-Olav,

You have two very nice condition 1960s/1970s BRD Polizei hats. The first one is from Schelswig-Holstein, the second is from Baden-Württemburg. The black plastic chin strap is for the lowest ranks (BW equivalent is "enlisted"), the silver and green braided chinstrap is for mid ranks (BW equivalent is "non-commissioned officers).

These hats, and their uniforms, were replaced in 1978 as part of a general standardization of all police uniforms across Germany. Prior to that time each Staat (state), and certain large Stadt (city), had their own uniform designs. Part of the goal of standardization was to make the police officers appear less militaristic as many of the uniforms looked very similar to WW2 uniforms. Schleswig-Holstein in particular. Starting a couple of years ago they changed uniforms a second time to conform with EU standards.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Jan-Olav,

I'd like to add a couple of comments to what Steve has said. The cap with the green and white chin strap is on a cap with the early type star. You can see that it is flat across the bottom so that the black chin strap just fits under the star. NCO and Officers braided chin straps were worn with the same flat bottomed star. Later on, the star was changed to have the bottom points included on the cap badge as well and worn higher up on the cap front. This looked much better with the braided chin straps.
Steve mentioned that different states and cities had different uniforms. Sometimes they had different caps as well. Berlin comes to mind as one example.
These are nice examples of police caps. Thanks for posting them.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Gordon,

I never noticed that about the S-H badge bottom! I always thought the flat bottom one looked goofy.

As for you comments about the variety of hats.... that's an understatement! They say 20% of all jobs in Germany are somehow related to the automobile industry. I think at least 20% are related to hat making business There are so many types and variations out there it makes my head spin. There was another collector here (don't remember who) that said he had about 150 hats at one time. I can completely believe it. I probably have 40 and I've actually tried *not* to purchase the darned things due to a lack of space.

I have a three or four book series (I forget and don't have them handy) detailing Polizei headgear of the German police forces from WW2 until the 1990s. And even that isn't complete.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

The colletor comment you remember was a response to one of my posts. He said that at one time, pre divorce, he had 150 poliezei uniforms with matching hats.
The three volume set of books on German polizei headgear you referred to may be "Polizei-Abzeichen - Helme-Heraldik-Historie" by Erich Radecke. It is the most complete over view of German polizei headgear that I am aware of covering the period in Band 1-up to 1918; Band 2-1918-1945; Band 3-1945-1993. He makes no attempt to cover all of the head gear (cap badges) as his title indicates. The only other book in my library that covers post war polizei headgear is Wilhelm Zoller's book "KOPFBEDECKUNGEN militarisch uniformierter Organisationen in Europa DEUTSCHE DEMOKRATISCHE REPUBLIK 1945-1990. All the rest deal with pre 1945 stuff.

Regards,

Gordon

[Jon. H]

Thank you very much guys, i really appreciate the great help!!!!!

I was actually asked a few years back by a friend if i could convert the first visor
in to an SS NCO and then he wanted to buy it.....

[MaxxBrunn1938]

Thank you very much guys, i really appreciate the great help!!!!!

I was actually asked a few years back by a friend if i could convert the first visor
in to an SS NCO and then he wanted to buy it.....

Way back in the early 19802 I use to convert these to SS I actually still have one someplace , now I kick myself for doing so.
Joe