Early ZB and THW items

[hoover]

I am learning myself a lot here. So we can get a better picture together.

[Klaus1989]

Very interesting and have learned much about ZB/ZS/THW uniforms here! I have seen also another Kälteschutzanzug model with only two lower pockets that is not shown here. M43 type ZS caps with bronze buttons sold on ebay.com often by same seller, but as DRK or Luftwaffe caps. It is interesting that they are rarer in Germany.

Here is Kochgeschirr I bought as early BGS from German seller awhile ago. When it arrived, obvious not BGS. It is like wartime (not tall postwar model), but has inside piece, dated 1959 and maker is PSL. I have never seen any other equipment with this colour paint. Colour is light olive-tan, not normal gelbbraun/khakifarben of most ZB articles. But, could this be some type ZB item?



regards
Klaus

[hoover]

All ZB-Kochgeschirre I am knowing are stamped with ZB or ZS. Maybe early Bundeswehr or BGS?

[Asbjoern]

If my mind doesn`t fool me I also own such a messkit ... stamped "LS" plus date, fabircated somewhere in the first half of the 50ies...the colour looks like "olivegrau" (olivegrey) RAL 7002, a colour which often used at the inside of vehicles of those organisations.
There are really khaki ones (RAL 7008), made late in the 50ies, stamped "ZB" and grey ones, then stambed "ZS", made in the 60ies.

Jens

[hoover]

I have never seen an LS item in that colour. Hope we can clarifiy that.

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

I have a mess tin just like Klaus has and it was purchased as aZB/ZS item. The colour is is very unusual and hard to desicribe although the picture Klaus posted is a very good representation of the colour on mine. Mine is not marked in any way. Here are a couple of pictures of mine.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The inside.

[Asbjoern]

Gordon, if this messkit is not marked at all and the colour is just a "plain light grey" it also may be DRK der DDR ! The eastern products are 100% identical and only a small nummer seems to be stamped with a sign of the manufacturer.

Jens

[Klaus1989]

Gordon,
Asbjoern is right. Your messkit is last model East German (1980s) - I had one like it when I still collected East German, except handle on inside cup different. My example is definitely West German (PSL = Paul Schulze, Lüdenscheid).

regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the inro. I'll put it with my DDR DRK stuff.

Regards,

Gordon

[Asbjoern]

I have never seen an LS item in that colour. Hope we can clarifiy that.

No photo yet but I examined my messkit collection five minutes ago...its clearly of a grey - olive colour and stamped "PSL 56" and "LS". A second one in this colour ist stamped only "PSL 59".

Jens

[hoover]

Foto Foto Foto?

[Asbjoern]

...will follow ... soon...one day...

Jens

[hoover]

I have to make a photo-day somedays, too. But I don´t want to search all my boxes yet.

[Gordon Craig]

Yes, you are right. The THW-cap badge is schown on the middle hat in the first cap. I have a grey cap with German black-red-gold metal cocarde, but I think this was not official.


A much discussed ZS-item are these sidecaps.
They are made from corduroy and are known in brown (ABC-branch) and blue (medical) pipings.
None of the known caps have labels, and some dealer here in Germany selling them as HJ-sidecaps. But I am quite certain that are no HJ caps. My (and the opinion of some other ZS-collectors) is, that they are early caps made for equipping the first batch of aides. But we haven´t any proof of this yet.

Maybe a HJ-expert can give us a tip that they are no HJ caps for sure. Than we could exclude this version.

There are still many questions about the uniforms of the Zivilschutz. UNfortunately most of the archives of the West German Zivilschutz were destroyed in the early 90´s when the organisiation of the Zivilschutz was disbanded.

hoover,

I've completed my research on HJ summer caps. They are very different from the ZS cap that you posted. They are constructed from a material often refered to as "herringbone twill" and not of corduroy as your cap is. HJ summer caps do have coloured pipping but they should all be marked with an RZM tag and since caps like yours don't have any markings in them this should be a dead give away to those buying them as HJ caps. Here are some photos of authentic HJ summer caps for your comparison.

Regards,

Gordon