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    #1

    Early BGS K98k question

    After reading the exellent threat on early BGS load carrying equipment I have a specific question over the K98 carbines in use in 1951.
    These K98k came apparently from captured stocks in France, 8000 pieces if this number is correct ? It is now that the French dit a modification on the carabines stock to accept also the MAS 36 rifle sling. Is it then possible that these Mausers for the BGS all had this modification on the stock ? Or were the ones deliverd just a mix of all types modified and non modified.
    Have these carbines also a specific BGS stamp ?








    Jan
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    #2
    jan r - Here are two documents with information on the French produced Kar98k used by the BGS. I hope they are helpful.

    Unfortunately, I don't have any information on the number of rifles produced by the French. From what I can tell, the modification to the sling insert was done to simplify production. It makes sense though that this was done to facilitate the use of the MAS 36 sling which must of been available in large numbers to the French.

    Please share anymore information you may come across.

    Thanks - TJ
    Attached Files

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      #3
      Slide 2.

      From the information I have available, there were no distinctive BGS marks on these weapons.

      Period pictures would indicate that both the French produced Kar98k and wartime weapons were used by the BGS.

      All the best - TJ
      Attached Files

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        #4
        Speaking of the MAS 36, here's one being carrying by a Schupo manning Checkpoint Bravo in Berlin c. 1961. Source: Berlin and the American Military by Grathwol & Moorhus.

        From what I understand, the West Berlin Schutzpolizei weren't thrilled with the MAS 36 during the 1961 Berlin Crisis. It was nototrious for not having a safety catch and only had a five round magazine. The VOPOs across the wire had access to the MPi KM 41, Karabiner S, and MPi KM 47.

        Anyone ever fire one? How's it handle?

        Thanks - TJ
        Attached Files

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          #5
          Back to the French Kar98k, here's a color photo from the Ball book.

          TJ
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            #6
            Here's an undated picture of a "Bee Gee" with a Kar98k near Asbach, Germany. It's hard to tell from this picture what version of the Kar98k he's carrying.

            All the best - TJ
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              #7
              TJ - Some great info on a little known aspect of BGS small arms.

              Both of these images were taken during the same BGS training exercise in 1954. In the first image the Grenzjaeger in the foreground has a French supplied Kar98k. In the second image another Grenzjaeger in the same unit has a wartime Kar98k:



              Comment

                #8
                TJ,

                I would guess that the Kar98k carried by the BGS chap where you say it is not certain which one is carried was a wr time issue rifle. The metal insert in the stock for taking down the bolt was discontinued before the end of the war. The French made 98k in the foto you posted just before that one indicates the lack of the metal take down insert well. Just an educated guess though.

                Regards,

                Gordon

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                  #9
                  Thank you all for this usefull information !

                  Jan

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                    #10
                    sgtmunroe - Your ability to consistently produce previously unpublished pictures of the early BGS never ceases to amaze - Thanks!

                    Gordon - Sharp eyes! I didn't even notice the lack of the take-down lug when I was putting together the slides.

                    Thanks to you and sgtmunroe we've definetely established that the BGS used both French produced and wartime Kar98ks.

                    jan r - Great thread! In your picture the Kar98k has both the French sling adaptation and the take down ring. Variations of variations......

                    As seen below, the East Germans used them too, presumably wartime models from stocks captured by the Russians.

                    All the best - TJ
                    Attached Files

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                      #11
                      TJ,

                      The DDR (although it was called the SBZ in those days) used the 98k fairly entensively following the war. Some were refurbished to an "as new" condition. I had a refurbished one until I sold my firearms collection and it looked like it was made yesterday.

                      Regards,

                      Gordon

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Thomas J. Cullinane Jr. View Post
                        jan r - Great thread! In your picture the Kar98k has both the French sling adaptation and the take down ring. Variations of variations......
                        A bit of BGS trivia...a number of Grenzjägers from GSG7 appear in the 1955 German film Kinder Mütter und ein General as Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS extras. The film was made in 1954 and is a pretty good story about late-war Germany. If you have not seen it - well, if you can find it - it's worth watching.

                        Anyway, below is an image taken by a Grenzjäger during a break in filming. The people in the image are Hilde Krahl (1), who plays one of the main characters; (2), (5), and (6) are known BGS-Grenzjägers; and the other numbered individuals are actors. Note that Grenzjäger Nr.5 and the (possible) Grenzjäger beside him have the French Kar98k with both the take-down ring and sling attachment.

                        It appears that the Grenzjägers must have used their own issued weapons for the film...

                        Also note the small boy [also an actor] is wearing a BGS-Feldmütze.

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                          #13
                          Cool!

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