A cap tht seems very rare nowadays....

[bf109e4]

Few days ago, I ran into this cap, I donno wht this call but I am certain this is very rare, so I bought it right away.....

Is this really rare nowadays? cuz I can't find it anywhere on the net....

I can't even find a pic of its tht period either, I hav seen many pic of the grey version one, but not this one....

Any suggestion?

http://www.wargameyau.net/attachment...DZUtiu3jzn.jpg

[Asbjoern]

Sorry to say but this is the "not so rare" type of BW field cap. Beside the grey caps worn with the Dienstanzug in the 50ties there was a fieldcap made of a olivegreen fishbone type of fabric. The cocade on this type is not on a square type of cloth but on a trapezoidal one. This early type is relatively rare, especially in bigger size. The type on your picture is the later one, manufactured from the mid 60ies onwards. Its not so often seen on pictures as up from the early 70ies the barret was more popular among BW personal, but it is manufactured for a very long periode as some units didn`t change to "Flecktarn" as "Marinelandeinheiten" (ladbound units of the marine)

Jens

[SprogCollector]

Jens is quite right. The cap shown is the 'moleskin' version of the field cap. If you look inside, the date of manufacture should be on the label.

The earlier version of the cap looks almost identical except for being made from a herringbone-pattern fabric. The earlier cap badge was a combination badge with the cockade and branch of service (crossed swords for Heer; small wing for Luftwaffe, or anchor for Navy) embroidered on it.

[Klaus1989]

Here is one of earlier type described by other members, from my collection and dated 1959, for comparison. Note trapezoid with crossed sabres are for Heer, as described previous. This version less common and it took time to find it. Material is olive twill cotton (much greener than moleskin). The moleskin version is common and not worth much.

Indoor lighting is bad. It looks better (and greener) in reality.



regards
Klaus

[bf109e4]

Oic, so tht's why so few pic showing ppl wearing this cap...so the beret took the "fashion"

olive twill cotton one looks much better than my one , by the way, where can I see the history of BW field cap?

I hav seem a field cap identical to mine but without the two button, any idea?

[Klaus1989]

Oic, so tht's why so few pic showing ppl wearing this cap...so the beret took the "fashion"

olive twill cotton one looks much better than my one , by the way, where can I see the history of BW field cap?

I hav seem a field cap identical to mine but without the two button, any idea?

Do you have photos of the cap? There are some fakes without buttons in moleskin, not sure this type existed in Bw.

From what I have noticed in photos, here is basic timeline of Bundeswehr field caps: Twill field cap (1955-1960? with splinter combat unifrom/1955-mid 1960s with olive work uniform), wool Schiffchen/"side cap"(1960?-1970s with olive wool combat uniform), moleskin Schiffchen and moleskin field cap - your type (late 1960s-early 1990s with moleskin combat uniform. Berets are introduced in 1970s.

A Bw veteran explained to me that they were to wear field caps but they preferred berets and it was mark of experienced soldier because in training they had to wear field caps. The Schiffchen and field caps with visor were both called "Feldmütze" by Bundeswehr I think, as opposed to "Dienstmützen" for wear with better uniform.

regards
Klaus

[Bob Hritz]

Apparantly, all the armies of the world must really envy the French, to desire the beret so badly. I never though the beret looked proper on soldiers who spend just too much time trying to 'dandy' them up.

Bob Hritz

[bf109e4]

Do you have photos of the cap? There are some fakes without buttons in moleskin, not sure this type existed in Bw.

From what I have noticed in photos, here is basic timeline of Bundeswehr field caps: Twill field cap (1955-1960? with splinter combat unifrom/1955-mid 1960s with olive work uniform), wool Schiffchen/"side cap"(1960?-1970s with olive wool combat uniform), moleskin Schiffchen and moleskin field cap - your type (late 1960s-early 1990s with moleskin combat uniform. Berets are introduced in 1970s.

A Bw veteran explained to me that they were to wear field caps but they preferred berets and it was mark of experienced soldier because in training they had to wear field caps. The Schiffchen and field caps with visor were both called "Feldmütze" by Bundeswehr I think, as opposed to "Dienstmützen" for wear with better uniform.

regards
Klaus

The pattern is something like this but is in oliver green:

http://www.hessenantique.com/v/vspfi...ABW10006-1.jpg

Tht's wht I remember...

But strangely, I find most black and white photo with soldiers wearing the grey field cap instead of the oliver one, beret r not uncommon as well, maybe tht explain why, "more experience"

[LuckyStrike23]

. Berets are introduced in 1970s.

regards
Klaus

But only the black and the winered one. All the other berets were introduced 10 years later in 1980.

[Gordon Craig]

The pattern is something like this but is in oliver green:

http://www.hessenantique.com/v/vspfi...ABW10006-1.jpg

Tht's wht I remember...

But strangely, I find most black and white photo with soldiers wearing the grey field cap instead of the oliver one, beret r not uncommon as well, maybe tht explain why, "more experience"

bf109e4,

I am not aware of any cap in the BW such as you described. There is a blue Bordmutz in a similar but different shape that does not have buttons but no olive coloured cap that I am aware of.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

But only the black and the winered one. All the other berets were introduced 10 years later in 1980.

LuckyStrike23,

Sorry, but your dates are not correct. On 18 September , 1969, the
Führungstab des Heeres introduced the Beret for the first time in BW service. The beret was authorized as follows;
Jägertruppe (grun), Panzertruppe (schwarz) and for Fallschirmjäger (bordeauxrot). Other colours were added throughout the 70s.

Regards,

Gordon

[LuckyStrike23]

you may be right concerning the official dates of introduction but i can assure you within my bataillon the black berets arrived in late 1970 or 1971.

PS: i have just looked in our chronicle, and the berets arrived in april 1971.

[Gordon Craig]

LuckyStrike23,

Not at all surprised to see that your battalion received the black beret when it did. Authorizing dates are often quite different than the actual dates of issue to troops. I was serving in the Royal Canadian Air Force in France in the 60s when the army navy and air force were integrated into one service and we were to be issued new green uniforms to be worn by all three services. It was two years later, and I was back in Canada, before I was issued the green work dress and another year before I could be issued the green dress uniform. Written regulations are always superceded by actual dates of issue.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

bf109e4,

I am not aware of any cap in the BW such as you described. There is a blue Bordmutz in a similar but different shape that does not have buttons but no olive coloured cap that I am aware of.

Regards,

Gordon

I think he means grey Bergmütze that Gebirgsjäger sometimes wear with combat uniform. I do not think it was normal wear in field however, but in barracks. There are some photos posted on this forum of a member wearing moleskin field cap in early 1990s (I think in Budeswehr Lovers Thread).

I thought I read that beret introduced universal in 1979 for Bw units that did have them earlier (like Panzer, Jäger, etc), but that could be wrong...

regards
Klaus

[hc8mm]

The pattern is something like this but is in oliver green:

http://www.hessenantique.com/v/vspfi...ABW10006-1.jpg

Tht's wht I remember...

But strangely, I find most black and white photo with soldiers wearing the grey field cap instead of the oliver one, beret r not uncommon as well, maybe tht explain why, "more experience"

bf109e4,

I am not aware of any cap in the BW such as you described. There is a blue Bordmutz in a similar but different shape that does not have buttons but no olive coloured cap that I am aware of.

Regards,

Gordon

Since you are in Hong Kong, bf109e4, maybe you have the Taiwanese type cap from the 1950s. It has the same style as th cap you posted and should be olive drab color and I believe made out of herringbone twill material. It does not have buttons.

..yeah totally different from a geographical standpoint.. Germany and Taiwan, but Nationalist China used the ski cap and changed the design that used less materials like the Germans. But possible it may be?



original link for larger picture: http://images.google.com/hosted/life...26start%3D180#




These pictures are from google/LIFE