BGS M31 Canteens

[Klaus1989]

Finally found postwar dated BGS "Feldflasche 31," the early WW2-style canteen used by BGS 1951-early 1960s (photos indicate it never complete replaced by Kokonuß model). I have undated one that was possible to be BGS but now we can compare it with positive BGS M31 canteen. There are some differences but not sure if they are from production or if undated one is actually WWII issue.

In all photos, canteen to left is postwar dated 1951 (CFL51 on cup) and 1960 (FSR60) on canteen. Many BGS canteens seem to have mismatched parts - I think canteen was replaced because almost no wear but cup and cover have much. To right is undated, but shows much use.

Both have leather straps with edging, West German feature, but not WWII (I think). Postwar has square edges on cup loop, buckle is poorly made and unpainted. Undated has rounded edges on loop and buckle is painted black, better quality. Postwar has lighter cover (unimportant).

[Klaus1989]

Clips are also different. Postwar has clip marked "Patent Ritter" and flattended on bottom (identical to Bw Kokonß canteen). Undated is unmarked on clip with rounded bottom to clip. The clips attach differntly to leather - folded under and sewn on postwar, and folded over and then sewn on undated. The back of postwar canteen is not pressed in (manufacture mistake I think).



Note plain snaps on postwar dated. Undated has Pyrm snaps (marked "S.H.B." on inside side). I have seen photo of postwar-dated BGS M31 canteen with Pyrm snaps in German collection, so they exist. Also interesting is black thread on undated (postwar has white).

[Klaus1989]

Finally comparison of cups and canteen tops. Postwar cup is slightly darker green/olive than undated. "CFL51" is barely visible in photo (between handles). Felt cover fits postwar fine but top snap on undated will not close. Note other side of clips.



Not visible in photo but inside of cap on postwar canteen is lined with cork, but this is rubber in undated.

I hope I have not been too boring but this subject is interesting one (to me anyways ). The differences between various equipments is something not well documented in BRD militaria, especially non-Bundeswehr items. If anyone know better about feauters of wartime M31 or which manufacturer CFL and FSR are, let me know!

regards
Klaus

[Guardian 5]

Klaus - Well done!

I'll try and get some of my post-war and wartime M31s on the forum later this week. The old photo below shows wartime on the left and post-war on the right. I owe you folks some explanations; they're on the way!

The BW made very limited use of this type as well, I'll try and get some period photos up. Unfortunately, they don't reproduce well.

Have you considered posting this thread on the Wehrmacht Equipment Forum as well? There are some field flask fanatics on that site who may be able to provide some information on the maker marks.

Great job!

Thanks - TJ

[Klaus1989]

I thought to do that. Probably tomorrow when I have time. Interesting that my undated canteen appears similar to your BGS canteen except that it has Pyrm snaps and not plain ones (from front anyways). My 1951 canteen (first year of BGS!) has more differences. Is your dated or undated? I forgot.

regards
Klaus

[Varsity]

Hello Klaus,

I think your undated example is BGS also. The dip, it looks like a typical post-war example. The patent Ritter looks more like a wartime clip, big chance they had them still in stock in the early years of the BGS and reissued these for new fieldbottles.

If the makermarks are still the same company's as in wartime, the CFL mark is for "Heuel, Peter, Sägewerk" in Olpe/Westfalen (i. Ronnewinkel).
And the FSR mark is for "Hegele, Martin, Korbwaren" in Zettlitz-Lichtenfels.
but I am not sure if these codes were unchanged?

I hope i've helped you so far.

Grtz. Jim

[Klaus1989]

Jim:
Thanks for help! That confirms what I suspected, but I am not expert on wartime canteens so I wanted to be sure. Seller only called it "vintage German canteen." I think maker codes are same postwar (for example Heinrich Ritter was still HRE).

regards
Klaus

[Guardian 5]

Gents - Attached find a photo of the M1931 field flask being worn by members of Bundeswehr Grenadier Battalion 12 (Höxter) during a field exercise in 1956.

Also note the use of straight handle entrenching tools in leather carriers, the traditional mess kit/cook pot carried on a bread bag and leather map cases. They are firing the U.S. 81mm mortar and are armed with U.S. M-1 carbines. The photo is from the 12th edition of "Der Deutsche Soldat" magazine published in 1956.

From what I understand, Wehrmacht style field gear was not standard issue to the BW. It was borrowed from neighboring BGS units and returned after the exercise.

Jim - Here are the makers marks of BW/BGS field flasks and cook pots that I know so far. There is no code involved, just the initials of the firm. Thus, I'm not sure if "CFL" has the same meaning it did during wartime.

AWS = Unknown
ESB = Ed. Sommerfeld, Berlin.
FSR = Unknown
FWBN = F.W. Bröckelmann, Aluminiumwerk GmbH KG, Neheim/Ruhr. Wartime code = " ccj "
H.R.E. = Heinrich Ritter, Essinglen am Neckar
HSK = Unknown
oLc = Overhoff & CO, Lüdenscheid (maker of other aluminum "bits" for the BW)
PSL = Paul Schulze & CO, Lübeck
RFJ = Unknown
VDN / VDNS = Vereinigte Deutsche Nickel-Werke, Schwerte (or Nickel und Stahlwerke)


All the best - TJ

[Klaus1989]

TJ:
Here are couple more codes to research that are not on your list - I have 1963-dated BGS short Kochgeschirr marked "ESB" and 1972-dated BGS tall Kochgeschirr marked "HSK".

Unrelated, but trying to research West German straight shovels is very difficult. I am not sure the differences with WW2 because lack of clear closeup photos, but that is topic for another thread...

regards
Klaus

[Guardian 5]

Klaus - I'll put your maker codes on the list and wholeheartedly agree that the subject of post-war BW/BGS spaten is a very murky one indeed.

Take care - TJ

[Guardian 5]

Klaus - I found ESB, check out updates above in Post 8.

TJ

[Klaus1989]

TJ:
I notice you list FSR as unknown and CFL is not on list. Varsity identifies them in his post above. It is good to know finally who PSL is! I tried to identify them earlier without luck.

Interesting also that my messkit for BGS is made in Berlin. Normally only Bepo items seem made in Westberlin. But it is clear marked "BGS".

regards
Klaus

[Guardian 5]

Klaus - I appreciate Varsity's input and have no doubt that he is correct.

All of the other "uncovered" post-war codes however, are just the initials of the firm, not codes.

I'd like to rule out the possibility that CFL and FSR are initials as well and not carried over wartime codes before I add them to the list.

Of course, no one else is obligated to carry out this questionable practice if they disagree

Take care - TJ

[Klaus1989]

West German Manufacturer Codes

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