Announcement

**speedytop** · 01-26-2012, 04:56 PM

Very interesting!

Viewing on old (US) sources, you can find often

Äskulapstab = caduceus

e.g.:
- TM 30-506 from 1944
- Langenscheidt's Fachwörtebuch Wehrwesen Englisch from 1957

In a modern book you can find both:
- Foster, Complete Guide to the United States Army Medals Badges and Insignia WW 2 to Present, 2004
Army Medical Department Branch Insignia > caduceus
Flight Surgeon Badges > Staff of Aesculapius

In the second link from HPL2008 you can find:
Branch Insignia > caduceus
Regimental Insignia > staff entwined with a serpent Vert

In www.dict.cc you can find for Äskulapstab:
caduceus [Am.: rod of Asclepius]
Aesculapian staff
rod of Asclepius
staff of Aesculapius

Wikipedia:
"The caduceus is sometimes mistakenly used as a symbol of medicine and/or medical practice, especially in North America, because of widespread confusion with the traditional medical symbol, the rod of Asclepius, which has only a single snake and no wings."
or
"It is relatively common, especially in the United States, to find the caduceus, with its two snakes and wings, used as a symbol of medicine instead of the correct rod of Asclepius, with only a single snake. This usage is erroneous, "

Uwe

Sorry! A little bit OT

**cbmilne33** · 02-11-2012, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by Thomas J. Cullinane Jr. View Post

Michael - Outstanding photographs!

As an aside, do you happen to know what occasioned the wear of a shako? In my 'coffee table' Berlin Crisis books I often see pictures of West Berlin Policemen (presumably all Schupos) wearing shakos with others sporting the M-43 style cap and billed 'saucer caps'.

Was it an EM - NCO - officer thing; duty position; traffic versus patrol? Any light you could shed on this would be deeply appreciated.

In another aside, I saw these Polizei specialist epaulettes on Manion's and thought they may be of interest to some.

Thanks - TJ

The Tschako or German Police helmet was originally the Saxon Army helmet that the German police forces used whereas the German Army in period after Bismarks Wars of German Unification took to using the Prussian Army pickelhualb helmet.A factor that strongly influenced the Westberlin Landespolizei keeping to the lines of the traditional German uniforms etc was that even though they were on the western side of the Berlin Wall they still shared the Prussian-Saxon heritage in common with the East German military and police forces on the East/West German Wire.

**Guardian 5** · 02-12-2012, 12:03 PM

cbmilne33 - Thanks for the information and welcome to the forum. We are always happy when new members make their first visit to the BRD Forum.

What are your collecting interests?

All the best - TJ

**Simon1988** · 07-18-2012, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by Asbjoern View Post

Not directely police but from nrw prison personel are these two items: A canteen of the well known type which is used by different west german organizations during the 60ies and the well known AUER eye protection with its pocket. Both items stamped with "Justiz NRW":

Details of the canteen

Regards,

Jens

Hey Folks,

Haven't read this thread before. Maybe I can help with this stuff here. These blue colored things weren't carried by regular prison staff. In the 50s and 60s, in Germany every kind of administration or governmental organisation had to run a so called "Behoerdenselbstschutz". This was part of the governmental air defence and disaster management. Similar to the LSHD, but only for any kind of Behoerde. Such as the prisons are. The equipment used for this "Behoerdenselbstschutz" was the same like in the LSHD but in blue color. The "Bundesluftschutzverband" also wore the same color. "JUSTIZ NRW" says, the stuff was used at an "Behoerdenselbstschutztrupp" of a Northrhine-Westfalian prison or court. They also had blue working suites, gas mask bags and bags like the "Tragesatz".

regards Simon

**Simon1988** · 07-21-2012, 12:03 PM

Hey folks, so here we have the 4 badges used by the Rheinland-Pfalz police from 1952 (first year of the green uniforms) to 1976.

kind regards

**Gordon Craig** · 07-21-2012, 06:49 PM

Simon,

During which years was the STADT MAINZ badge worn?

Regards,

Gordon

**Simon1988** · 07-22-2012, 04:08 AM

Good morning Gordon,

I don't know it exactly. Found this badge a few years ago for little money. I think it was worn by the Ordnungsamt and other units wich control the inner city traffic and such things. Must be from the 60s.

Like I wrote in an earlier post, the Gendarmerie bdage was worn up to 1973. From 1974 on the police at the countryside was changed into so called "Schutzpolizei" they then wore the badge on the left handside. This is an early one. Later the letters "Polizei" were written bigger. The "Ordnungspolizei" was the unit, I wrote, founded in bigger citys.

Rheinland-Pfalz police history is a bit difficult here. From the early 50s to the early 70s the Gendarmerie was responsible at the countryside. In citys it was the Ordnungspolizei. But the Gendarmeriestationen have also been placed in the city. And if you were driving on the motorway, the responsible police unit was the Motorisierte Gendarmerie or later the so called Autobahnpolizei.

It happened more than once, a thief or someone fled from the city to the countryside. The Ordnungspolizei musn't follow him and the Gendarmerie only had a slow VW Kaefer.

Craziest thing was: If you crossed the river rhine most of the time you were a free man, because connection from Hessen or Baden-Wuerttemberg to the Rheinland-Pfalz police wasn't always so good.

**Gordon Craig** · 07-22-2012, 07:55 AM

Simon,

Thanks for the excellent response. I know that most of the city police forces were absorded in the state ones by the early 70s so I suspect this badge was worn, as you say, in the 60s and possibly as late as the early 70s.

Regards,

Gordon

**Simon1988** · 07-23-2012, 11:14 AM

And now it's my turn. This is my Rheinland-Pfalz Polizei uniform. In this version it was worn in the arly 1970s.

The epaulettes make sure it was orn by a Polizei Obermeister. The fastening of the holster is also a late version. Before, the holster was fixed at the Lederkoppel. In the 1970s the Lederkoppel only was worn by the traffic police in white color.

The golden pin on the left is an award for special sportive performance.

**Simon1988** · 07-23-2012, 11:15 AM

Here a closer look at the shirt.

**Simon1988** · 07-23-2012, 11:18 AM

And here the 1970s version greatcoat.

I changed the fixed Hauptwachtmeister epaulettes and added an original pair of Obermeister one. So it fits to my jacket.

**Simon1988** · 07-23-2012, 11:20 AM

Here we have a 1955 pair of wool breeches. Worn till the early 1960s. From then own only norma trousers were worn in Rheinlan-Pfalz.

**Simon1988** · 07-23-2012, 11:29 AM

And last but not least... The visors.

First an earlier one with white covering. Such visors were used by Ordnungspolizei and Gendarmerie traffic patrol units. With this came a white holster and leather belt. The silver strap says it's a Obermeister or Hauptmeister. From Kommissar rank on the visors had silver piping. This one has green piping.

The early Rheinland-Pfalz visors had the police star on top. Later the star went down as you can see at the second visor. This is made 1973.

The plastic strap in combination with green piping says it's a Wachtmeister rank or Polizeimeister. Higher Gendarmerie ranks already wore the silver strap.

**SCHUPO** · 07-24-2012, 08:33 AM

Very nice Simon. Your uniform is just like mine except mine has the straight trousers.

**Simon1988** · 07-25-2012, 02:35 AM

I have straight trousers with green piping, too. They came with this uniform and must also be manufactured around 1973.

The breeches are older. Similar ones were worn by the Saarland and Schleswig Holstein police. In Rheinland-Pfalz from around 1962 on, the breeches had only to be worn in the winter period. From may to september the policemen wore the straight trousers. These had also a much thinner cloth. To the breeches the policemen wore high boots or in the early 50s also leather gaiters. Later only low shoes were given to them.

Announcement

West German Polizei

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread