For the Bundeswehr lover in all of us...

[comune1aclasse]

My last entry

Hi fellows!!

I wanted to share with you my newest arrival.
A 1964 made tunic for enlisted men with green piped collar and sleeve patch of the 4th Panzergrenadierbrigade. Nothing special but for me the first one of this kind in my collection
I love the detail with the screw button for the shoulderboards... all my 1960s tunics for NCOs and Officers have just normal/regular sewn buttons...

cheers,
Alex

[Collectinsteve]

Nice condition jacket. I don't understand the screw type shoulder buttons. Is this a manufacturer choice? Until now I've only seen them on private purchase uniforms and Mantel, not a standard production jacket for enlisted ranks.

Steve

[comune1aclasse]

I don't understand the screw type shoulder buttons.

...considering that it's certainly much more expensive for a manufacturer to deliver the jackets with such a kind of button than just a regular one, I think this must be a self-made improvement made by any of the soldiers who had been issued this tunic.

As a matter of fact you can guess some kind of shades of rank insignia which once were sewn on the sleeves. By observing the lining of the sleeves you can clearly see the print of the rank insignia patches designed by the stiches of the sewing machine. This tunic once sported (for sure) rank insignia for a Gefreiter and rank insignia for a Hauptgefreiter.
So this tunic also had its "career"

Cheers,

Alex

[Asbjoern]

Maybe these buttons are an improvment done in the "Kleiderkammer" when the tunic was reworked for the next issue ...

I have a quite similar tunic with AA colours also equipped with these buttons.

Jens

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

This brings up a question that I have been going to ask for some time. When are the shoulder boards attached to the tunic? Tunics, of this time frame, have a flap on each shoulder to attach the shoulder boards to. Are they shipped from the manufacturer with boards sewn in place or is this done at the time the tunic is issued to the individual soldier. The later time frame would seem to be the most logical.

Regards,

Gordon

[Asbjoern]

Gordon,

to my knowledge this method started with the invention of the coloured "Vorschübe" under the shoulderboards in 1963. Before that a soldier only had to replace / add parts to the metal insignia when he was promoted and the bords itself mustn`t be changend (as long as he did not change from NCO to officer rank etc) After that he had to change the complete boards when he changed the branch which could happen more often ... especially for the lower ranks it was much easyer to upgrade tunics or do make it suitable for conscrips again when the first wearer left service...

According to this I think that the new tunics came without boards to the Kleiderkammer and were finished on specific demand before beeing issued...

Jens

[Proud Kraut]

Gordon,

According to this I think that the new tunics came without boards to the Kleiderkammer and were finished on specific demand before beeing issued...

Jens

That's right. In many cases these incomplete tunics are even issued to new recruits before the shoulder boards (and collar tabs) are sewn on. E.g. in Officer Candidate Battalions, where officer candidates of all army brances were trained. Usually these recruits were accoutered with incomplete tunics. In the first weeks of their training the local Kleiderkammer/tailoring completes the uniforms adding the colored shoulder boards and collar tabs on demand of the Battalion. Why? Because of saving costs. Let's say the Officer Candidate Bn is located in Hammelburg, home of the German Infantry School. Hammelburg's LHD/Kleiderkammer is in the "Infantry supply line". But about 400 - 500 officer candidates from all army branches have to be clothed simultaneously. Impossible to have any size of all different army branch tunics in stock. So tunics were issued incompletely, returned again and completed individually with branch insignia within the first weeks of basic training, and of course before the swearing-in ceremony.

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

Regards,

Gordon

[comune1aclasse]

My latest additions

Gentlemen,

managed to get these two jackets:

The first piece is for a Feldjäger EM. It is dated 1961 and has still the old pointed schoulderstraps. The Jacket is in like new condition but sadly is stamped "A" on the label






The second Jacket is for a Stabsunteroffizier of the Engeneers troops (Pioniere). It is dated 1966 and has the collar with black piping. .......








Cheer,

Alex

[herkules]

uniform

Meine Herrn,

ich hatte mich als Offizier-Anwaerter entschlossen der Heeresflieger Truppe

beizutreten (1967) !

Gelandet bin ich zunaechst bei der Ausbildungs Kp 8/1 (Pioniere/Holzminden) ...

'Gott sei Dank' nur fuer die Zeit der Grundausbildung !

Waehrend dieser Zeit trugen alle 'Anwaerter' die Pionier Variante !!!

Diese Pionier Variante wurde erst am 'Neuen Standort' getauscht !

Heeresflieger ( Uniform maessig ) wurden wir also erst in Hildesheim

waehrend unserer Fahrschulausbildung !!

Ein Ausbildungs Battalion fuer Offizieranwaerter des Heeres ist mir nicht

bekannt ! (wohl nur bei der Luftwaffe !!)

Z.B.: in Roth bei Nuernberg !

Kameradschaftliche Gruesse

Wolf

[herkules]

Uniform

Gentlemen,

let me add , what had been said about uniform alterations

would have exceeded any Kleiderkammer's potentials !

Any recruit had been issued and thus wearing the Army branch's

uniform as long as he served in it

At his new/ final destination the individual would have received his 'new' uniform !!!

all said below and before just does not make any sense,

apart from the fact that it would be too time consuming and demanding

too much items on stock along with a staff blown out of proportion !!!

I'd be very interested in hearing of an 'officer training battalion' in the

Army (Heer)

Thank you

Wolf

[hoover]

Alex, the nice engineers tunic is one of my old unit, the Pionierbataillion 11 of the 11. PzGrenDiv.

What a very nice jacket!

Bye
Frank

[comune1aclasse]

Hi Frank,

I'm glad you like that jacket

Wow!! so you served right exactly in that unit!?...cool!.....was it in the 1960s?
Would love to see some period Photos with such uniform in wear

Cheers,

Alex

[praubal]

My friend has a Bundesmarine Admirals tunic if anyone is intetested.

[hoover]

Alex,

no, I served in the early 90´s in the PiBtl 11. The bataillon was placed in the Niedersachsenkaserne in Dörverden, between Bremen and Hannover. It was a very big engineers barracks, with the PiBtl 11 as the divisional engineers Bn, the sPiBtl 129 (heavy corps engineers Bn of the I. Korps), the Panzerpioninierbataillon 320 (armoured engineerr bataillon of the 32 PzGrenBrig, also part of the 11. PzGrenDiv).

And there has been a rocket arty Bn (Rakatenartillereibataillon 32, equiüpped with 110mm LARS Launcher) and a battery of AA HAWK rockets of the Luftwaffe.

All of my familiy served either in the PiBtl 11 or the PzPiBtl 320. Question of family tradition

When I joined the PiBtl 11 in 1991 I got a tunioc made in 1973, my year of birth. And I kept it until I became Feldwebel in 1995. I am still angry that I returned my frist tunic instead of keeping it for my collection.

Bye
Frank