1942 G.S.W. flashed to the Black Watch

[Canuck67]

Hi Thierry thanks for your reply I agree there is more of the tell tale scratches and scuffs evident on the shell on the RP Mk II and I was using it to proove my point on the types of paint that ware employed and how they can show wear scratches scuffs and damage but I still stand behind the BW helmet I have no problem being wrong Thierry it happens all the time LOL.
I just do not think I am in this case or I would be the first one to admit I had made a mistake as collecting is an on going learning experiance this Mk II feels and looks a lot different in hand than what I can portrait in images.

Regards Mark

[SMP]

Interesting discussion.

I think it takes a very brave man to shell-out a bucket load of cash on a Commonwealth helmet sporting a hand-painted Div flash. There are no real standards to judge a genuine one against. Personally I steer well clear of all these specialist helmets unless I know the helmet has a cast-iron provenance, or I can buy it for peanuts at a car-boot sale or junk shop.

E-bay and dealer's sites are awash with exotic helmets at the moment .The fakers have found a new way to cash-in.

[JUBILEE42]

Interesting discussion.

I think it takes a very brave man to shell-out a bucket load of cash on a Commonwealth helmet sporting a hand-painted Div flash. There are no real standards to judge a genuine one against. Personally I steer well clear of all these specialist helmets unless I know the helmet has a cast-iron provenance, or I can buy it for peanuts at a car-boot sale or junk shop.

E-bay and dealer's sites are awash with exotic helmets at the moment .The fakers have found a new way to cash-in.

Perfectly agree Steve...As per the "German helmet Jungle" where, since a while now, the camos and/or decals helmets, due to the bonanzas they can generate, are source of all kind of abuses or manipulation and systematically doubtful until they are determined as genuine, the market of Commonwealth flashed helmets tends to become vicious also with significant increase in prices and by the way, a new playground for fakers & scammers...

Best
Thierry

[tubist73]

I must say that I also find threads like this to be interesting, informative and part of the learning process for all. I have to agree that the tone and quality of discussion in this particular forum is a credit to all, especially compared to the mud-slinging that sometimes goes on elsewhere.

I am not a Canadian helmet expert but I do have many British and Canadian lids, with a variety of factory finishes and added over-paints and insignia. I admit that when I first saw this helmet my reaction was immediately positive. The flash and blotchy paint surface seemed to fit nicely together.

After reading the many well-informed opinions and seeing close-up pictures, I am now sitting on the fence.

The wear and damage to the insignia does not match the signs of wear elsewhere on the helmet. I would really expect to see more paint chips and wear around the bottom edge of the rim. The other place that often either confirms or questions a helmet is the liner bolt. In this case - and I admit I can only guess from the photographs - the outside nut just does not seem to sit or blend into the shell as it should after so many years. I can't even see any dust around the join. I would like to see a picture of the inside bolt where it meets the liner.

From the evidence above it is easily possible that this liner has been added more recently. That then questions the authenticity of such a rare flash, given the fact the wear is not consistent. I just can't see how so many scratches and chips on the flash occurred without some consequent wear on the rest of the helmet, especially around the rim and top liner bolt (the two places most often in contact with other surfaces).

Matthew

[Canuck67]

Hi Steve ,Thierry,Matthew My many thanks for your replies and interest and I could not agree more with your previous statement Steve
E-bay and dealer's sites are awash with exotic helmets at the moment .The fakers have found a new way to cash-in.
No Argument there Steve very noticeable on E-Bay UK the last few months a good many camos and most of them being from the Island of Malta and more flashed helmets for sale than I have seen in years most of which are still quite easy to discern as the fakers have not worked out the finer details of there craft yet which IMHO we should not go into the finer details of hear no sense helping them out any.
Hi Matthew thank you for your reply a few thoughts do come to my mind on the wear to the flash and I do know this from the many other MK II helmets in my personal collection I am of the opinion that some of the damage sustained to this flash may have been directly caused from constant helmet stacking either coming in contact with a chinstrap retaining lug chinstrap rings that attache the elasticated part of the strap to the center strap and or the buckle on the chinstrap it self.
As to the wear on the rim and the dome there is as you have mentioned very little chipping which I would fully expect to see on a helmet that spent any time in the field and or the ETO perhaps an Officer,NCO and or a soldier that served no time in the field of operations I wish I had the answer and the liner ,crucifix and the retention nut and bolt does look to have been there for some years how many I do not know .
I can include some images later this evening if you like.

Regards Mark

[grndevil44]

I do see what you mean about the similarities with the RP helmet Mark, I know sometimes alot gets missed in photo's, I don't know, a look over in hand would be nice, perhaps the contrast btwn the oval/spotting rust bleed (I assume) and the wear on the flash is what is throwing me for a loop,

I don't want to see fellow collectors get turned over,

Are you able to dig into it a bit more where it came from

[Canuck67]

Morning John sorry for the late reply as to the circular spots on the helmet body IMO are actually oil stains and not rust bleed that have soaked in to the finish on the paint.
I did contact the original seller of the helmet and questioned him on were he found it he informed me it came out of the Annapolis Valley in Nova Scotia.
And Thierry as to the marks scratches and scuffs on the RP Mk II although many of them do correspond with the scratches in the flash there are just about an even number of heavy scuffs and scratches that have not even left so much as a mark in the original factory base paint on the helmet body.

Regards Marks

[grndevil44]

ah ok yeah it does look more splash like, this is the prob not having it in hand

[helmet guy]

Interesting discussion.

I think it takes a very brave man to shell-out a bucket load of cash on a Commonwealth helmet sporting a hand-painted Div flash. There are no real standards to judge a genuine one against. Personally I steer well clear of all these specialist helmets unless I know the helmet has a cast-iron provenance, or I can buy it for peanuts at a car-boot sale or junk shop.

E-bay and dealer's sites are awash with exotic helmets at the moment .The fakers have found a new way to cash-in.

This is no comment and any of the helmets posted here, but I would just like to inform fellow collectors of someone in Quebec who has started flashing war time Canadian lids in 2014. His work is very well done and his aging techniques are good. He does this to get a bigger buck for helmets in his possession. He will either use someone to flog them off Ebay for him, or they could end up in the hands of a well know Quebec city militaria dealer more known for TR items and who's initials are C.L. Beware if you come across these. My reason for this alert is that I don't like to see people get burned by those with little principles who just want to make lots of money from their forgeries.

[Canuck67]

Thank you for the heads up has this forger been using old water slide transfer decals or has he been doctoring up helmets by adding hand painted flashes.
there were quite a few examples on E-bay last year with waterslide transfer decals that I would consider dubious to say the least and a couple of hand painted flashed examples that I would not have touched either.

Regards Mark

[helmet guy]

From what I have seen, he is not using water transfer flashes. He is hand painting unit flashes and then ages them by banging them up a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if he comes up with a Beach Master soon. Years back, someone in Montreal came across a load of several hundred GSW shells, liners and chinstraps that were never assembled or issued. The only part missing to put these together was the dome screws. I know that the person who had these had many of them destroyed in order not flood the market. But I heard that someone may have approached a machine shop to produce a number of dome screws bassed on an original. Did they have them made?.....I don't know if the forger that I mentioned is using some of those post war assembled helmets or just ones that he picks up here and there. All I can say is that I would beware of any helmets listed from Quebec or being sold by that particular Quebec city dealer.