Ken Burns The Vietnam War

[Bulldog]

Just watched episodes 7 and 8 and disgusted to see the so called civilized west murdering innocent old men, women AND CHILDREN, those American soldiers who done that were just a bunch of murdering bastards and no better than the Nazis.

Russ.

[cjam219]

Just watched episodes 7 and 8 and disgusted to see the so called civilized west murdering innocent old men, women AND CHILDREN, those American soldiers who done that were just a bunch of murdering bastards and no better than the Nazis.

Russ.

If your going to make an analogy like this then I should add that other nations could have been tried for war crimes according to a few historians.

The bombing of Dresden was a British/American aerial bombing attack on the city if Dresden, the capital of the German state of Saxony, that took place during the Second World War in the European Theatre. In four raids between 13 and 15 February 1945, 722 heavy bombers of the British Royal Air Force (RAF) and 527 of the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped more than 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city.[1] The bombing and the resulting firestorm destroyed over 1,600 acres (6.5 km2) of the city centre.[2] An estimated 22,700[3] to 25,000[4] people were killed.

When asked whether the bombing of Dresden was a war crime, British historian Frederick Taylor replied: "I really don't know. From a practical point of view, rules of war are something of a grey area. It was pretty borderline stuff in terms of the extent of the raid and the amount of force used."[139] Historian Donald Bloxham claims that "the bombing of Dresden on 13–14 February 1945 was a war crime". He further argues that there was a strong prima facie for trying Winston Churchill among others and that there is theoretical case that he could have been found guilty. "This should be a sobering thought. If, however it is also a startling one, this is probably less the result of widespread understanding of the nuance of international law and more because in the popular mind 'war criminal'

[bodes]

Craig, The bad part of your argument is, one can always say it was the Germans who started the concept of indescriminate bombing on civilians....In 1940, Germany bombed Rotterdam while peace negotiations were going on...Leningrad was shelled by German artillery over 500 days killing numerous civilians....I can go in and on.....

I believe Sir Arthur Harris said, "Germany sowed the wind, now they will reap the whirlwind".....This pretty much meant the Allies were going to exact the same style of an open, every one in Germany was fair game policy....Ironically, it was the English populace who was opposed to such bombings of targeted German civilians.....Bodes

[Kelly w]

Bodes

I'm surprised that after 18 hours they failed to mention that Ho chi Minh was given a silver/nickel plated 45 by US. So at the beginning they were talking with him. He must have told them they want only VN.

[kammo man]

Just watched episodes 7 and 8 and disgusted to see the so called civilized west murdering innocent old men, women AND CHILDREN, those American soldiers who done that were just a bunch of murdering bastards and no better than the Nazis.

Russ.

Russ,

What about the Parachute regt in Derry ?

[bodes]

I'm surprised that after 18 hours they failed to mention that Ho chi Minh was given a silver/nickel plated 45 by US. So at the beginning they were talking with him. He must have told them they want only VN.

I was not aware of that, but knew Minh had a copy of the US Declaration of Independence....They mentioned in the series that he used excerpts from it during a speech....Bodes

[Tim O'Keefe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog
Just watched episodes 7 and 8 and disgusted to see the so called civilized west murdering innocent old men, women AND CHILDREN, those American soldiers who done that were just a bunch of murdering bastards and no better than the Nazis.
Russ.

Russ,

What about the Parachute regt in Derry ?

Was just thinking that on 30 January 1972 in the Bogside Massacre, worst day in the red beret's history.

But there was another redcoat massacre more than 200 years earlier. So they have been at it for a much longer time than the States. That would be the Boston Massacre.

all the way
Tim

[Tim O'Keefe]

Kind of hard thinking of VN limiting expansion to just their own country, with the Soviet Union and China supplying military aid.....Bodes

Yes agree, at the time the 'Nam was just a proxy war to prevent the spread of communism throughout South East Asia. The same thing was happening in Central America and the Middle East. In this end the US succeeded.

[Tim O'Keefe]

The Bombing of Dresden was part of the Allies "Total War" strategy. Was it needless excessive overkill ? Obviously. Was it payback for the horrible years that preceded it ? of course. Was Dresden a strategic city that had to be destroyed ? No.

Was it justified ? Depends on who's reading this post. If one commits to fight a "Total War" then the means justify the end in all cases... i leave it to each of You ? For me the German's had to be stopped at any cost.

[Kelly w]

I was not aware of that, but knew Minh had a copy of the US Declaration of Independence....They mentioned in the series that he used excerpts from it during a speech....Bodes

It was right after 1945, Japanese were removed. OSS were quite involved with him. I think they were not nckel plated, just standard Colts. I was thinking of the one I have

[Kyle Harrington]

Politicians - soldiers

One of the most shocking part of the whole conflict was Nixon's attempt to spike peace negotiations in Paris in order to enhance his own electoral chances at home.
LBJ aware of Nixon's duplicity could not expose him due to how the information was acquired(CIA/FBI bugs) Nixon was prepared to prolong war to boost his ambition quite staggering really. Also no country can point an accusatory finger at any other the Brits committed numerous atrocities during Empire. My Lai was during the television era hence the outcry. Blame on the other hand rarely lands on the desk of the senior brass

[Bulldog]

Just watched episodes 7 and 8 and disgusted to see the so called civilized west murdering innocent old men, women AND CHILDREN, those American soldiers who done that were just a bunch of murdering bastards and no better than the Nazis.

Russ.

It seems my comment above did not go down too well with some people and a bit of a tit-for-tat started, its true the Brits have done more than their share of atrocities and are just as bad as the American soldiers i was on about in the episode i watched, but two wrongs don't make a right. My comment above was made because it was an incident shown in the episode in the series that this thread is about, nothing else.

Russ.

[Darrell]

You know what the viewpoint of anything PBS concocts will be. No use watching it. USA is bad. Everyone else is good. Case closed.

Sometimes I think Americans can't stand the thought that they are not always right?

[bmsmear]

Sometimes I think Americans can't stand the thought that they are not always right?

It's becoming easier and easier to believe in recent years, however.

[Tom Kracker]

The thing that I found most interesting was how the police handled the demonstrations. I completely forgot about the violence that usually erupted at the antiwar protests. If nothing else, he portrayed how the war really divided Americans very well.

Cops here in the states now have to wear body cameras so they don't get in trouble offending individuals rights to ignore police commands. In the old days, it was swing the club first and arrest later. Think the modern day protesters would have the same fortitude to stand up to cops who could defend themselves and public/personal property?