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I have just seen this post and would like to add that I meet Hein Severloh during the summer of 1986 and again in 1987. He was a very pleasent man who was not "gun ho" in any way, shape or form. He did tell me the story of that morning in 1944 and was near tears by the time he finished.Comment
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Thanks for posting the map. A very interesting item. Well done for saving it.
Its a shame people arent interested in this and would have not missed it if put in the trash. Its also a shame your grandfather never spoke about his experiences with anyone.
LewisComment
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Thanks for the comments. And yes, it's a shame that he didn't speak of his experiences, at least to someone. But considering what he must have gone through, on D-Day, and before and afterwards, I guess we can just count ourselves fortunate that we ended up with the map.Originally posted by LDR View Post
I think a lot of people who don't know better, when they think about D-DAy, have the idea that at sundown, everyone just stopped, lit up a cigarette, and said to themselves, "...Well. Thank God that's over with." As we know, nothing could be further from the truth.
Healthwise, the war took a terrible toll on my uncle. He was in the hospital recovering from pneumonia when the war ended, and he was a relativly young man when he died. I remember him as being a really nice guy and the poor guy fought a battle with booze long after the Germans threw in the towel, and he died from pneumonia in 1962, basically a broken man.Comment
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There once was an inkstamp in the upper left hand corner that said eighth grenider regiment, battlaion 915. But it is almost invisable at this point.
Interesting map. the inkstamp probably referred to 8th company (3rd Battalion), 915th Grenadier Regiment. This regiment, as one of the subordinate regiments of the 352d Infantry Division, defended Omaha Beach.Comment
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I am with Jean-Loup on this whole affair.
I read Severloh's book many years ago when I bought it in Germany and reread it as recently as two months ago. It is a fantastic account and is as honest as the day is as long. It is also verified by numerous other accounts, both American and German.
Severloh never 'claims' to be anything other that a soldier posted to protect an artillery observation detachment supporting the beach units. They were tied into WN 62 manned by soldiers from 3 Komp / RGT 726 / DIV 716. This unit from the 726th Regt included a young 18 year old soldier named Franz Gockel
As a part of the US Army's 50th Anniversary Commemoration Committee, 12 of us traveled in 1993 and again in 1994 to capture as many interviews as possible and to do a complete field study of the American beaches and landing areas. We interviewed hundreds of D-Day vets from every country and charted hundreds of skirmishes and bunkers.
One day in 1993 I was marking the positions of WN 62 when I saw a short man near the 1st Infantry Division monument. There was no one there but a lady sitting on a monument bench and us. I heard the man say something in German to the lady, which turned out to be his wife.
I asked this man if he fought there. He told me he did. After explaining to him who I was and what we were about, I asked him for details of the position from his memory. He gave me the names of the soldiers and the types of weapons. After we walked the trench lines and the bunkers of WN 62, I asked if he would consent to an interview. He happily agreed. His name was Franz Gockel. I still have the taped interview and we corresponded for many years thereafter until his death. We met again two more times at Normandy, in 1994 and 1999. He sent me detailed maps of the whole WN layout as he remembered it and a wonderful 160-page privately printed book of his called, "Normandie - Die Invasion am 6. Juni 1944 überlebt."
Hein Severloh was certainly there and fought heavily from his position with rifle and machinegun. Both Severloh and Gockel spoke of each other in their books as well. Severloh was also very prominent in Paul Carrel's book, "Sie Kommen!" better known in the USA as "The Invasion - They're Coming!" In his book ‘WN62’ Hein even gives a bit of a commentary on the incompleteness of Carrel’s portrayal complaining that it makes one think that he and Bernard Frerking were the only Germans fighting at WN 62, something he readily disputes.
Severloh also comments in his 2002 edition of his book that others wrote things about him that do not square with the facts. For example, he comments about quotes from one book using statements from a friend of his named Eberhard Schulz. He wryly comments that he never knew such a man or even an acquaintance by that name.
I am a bit confused to the comments in this post that Severloh is somehow a late coming figure in the Normandy story; that he is somehow an embellishment of what really happened there. He is certainly not. His absence in such books as Ryan's "The Longest Day" and Ambrose's "D-Day" cannot be taken as evidence of his importance of lack thereof. As to Ryan, it is well known today that Werner Pluskat led him astray about his role that morning. To hear Gockel and Severloh talk of him, they often joked that Pluskat fought the battle deep behind the lines. Severloh even makes mention of it in his book, saying that any info Pluskat received that morning actually came from Bernhard Frerking rather than firsthand and that the portrayal of him in the 1961 film is false.
As to Ambrose, his book is from the American view and does not cover the German side as a major part of the story. It was not his intention to do so. While containing some remarkable GI personal stories that save the book, it is an historical disaster when it comes to accuracy on the D-Day story. He makes hundreds of errors with regard to unit names, locations, highway names, etc., and even assigned a very famous quote to the wrong guy. Not what I would rely on for the 'true' picture of Normandy. But it is worth the price of the book to get the personal accounts.
I found the book remarkable. Powerful. Honest. Humble. The ending of his book makes a powerful statement of the torment of seeing a one particular soldier he killed with his rifle over and over in is dreams. He stated that this single day (and it was only one day as he was captured) cast a long shadow over his life which he would be under until his last breath.
To answer those wondering if Severloh was trying to overplay his role at the twilight of his life, I'll close with Severloh's own view of himself, taken from the forward of his book. Any mistakes in translation are mine alone:
On June 6th 1944, this one single day of the large Allied invasion in Normandy, deeply impacted my whole later life. As a young farmer’s son, I was drawn into Normandy after my first terrible war experiences in Russia. The invasion was launched 17 days before my 21st Birthday. At that time, I only knew or understood the many facts and connections insufficiently, or not at all. Much later, I came to a better realization and knowledge of them, on which I can report today.
My autobiography is not intended to be a justification, but on the contrary I only wanted to report more honestly about the events, which deeply imprinted my life and me as a person. I had at that time, like so many others, became a soldier against my will, and finding myself in those circumstances, came to the conclusion that I inevitably had to use force to preserve my life. I did not have the big picture at the time, but rather fought instinctively with all my might to survive when I was attacked, as would any creature in this world. After the war, in a magazine article about the Normandy invasion, I saw my name mentioned for the first time. Afterwards something began to build up inside, ending with a lingering realization, that before me stood a very sad cause…
After only 14 months, the first edition of this book was totally out of print. I added some other texts written about me in other works in this new edition, which supplements my history. Hein Severloh
May Hein Severloh finally find the peace of mind that eluded him after Normandy. SteveComment
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Hi Steve,
I am sure we have all benefited from your very learned grasp of this subject, at least I have. You seem to be the authority figure that we were hoping would finally join this discussion.
However, I think the main thrust of this debate concerned the allegations that Herr Sverloh had personally gunned down 2,000 men all by himself on that June day in 1944. Some have attributed these allegations to statements Severloh made in his book, which others state that this contentious claim is the work of a journalist who misquoted Severloh during an interview after the book was first published in Germany.
Can you address this for us? Did Herr Severloh make the claim himself, or was he misquoted?
Thanks,
--LarryComment
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"Did Herr Severloh make the claim himself, or was he misquoted?"
Severloh did make the claim himself, but in a moment when he was put off balance by a journalist insistingly asking him unpleasent questions. The word "claim" probably isnt adapted to the situation.
JLComment
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And this from a different article...Originally posted by Jean-Loup View Post
A leading German historical expert of the Second World War, Helmut Konrad Freiherr von Keusgen, believes Severloh may have accounted for 3,000 of the 4,200 American casualties on the day.
I shot. It was awful. Thinking about it makes me want to Severloh is less sure about the number, but said: "It was definitely at least 1,000 men, most likely more than 2,000. But I do not know how many men throw up. I almost emptied an entire infantry landing craft."
Whether he was badgered by the interviewer or not, in both of the above accounts Severloh not only gives the 1,000 figure the first time, but then clarifies that it was more like 2,000.
Also, note in both cases he also reports "not knowing" at first how many he killed, but then goes on to thow out the 2,000 figure.
I don't discredit Severloh with being there, and doing some serious damage, and surviving that day. And like Steve, I also wish him peace. I just don't think his claim (or whatever you want to call it) of killing 2,000 belongs in the historical record without some serious scrutiny like we are doing now.
And this guy....
"A leading German historical expert of the Second World War, Helmut Konrad Freiherr von Keusgen, believes Severloh may have accounted for 3,000 of the 4,200 American casualties on the day"
...needs to catch up on some reading.Comment
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Just some more random thoughts....
First to Nicholas: the captured map of the German position that your uncle brought home from the battle is a true treasure! What a rare find and I hope you will consider donating it one day to the National Archives in College Park, MD for other researchers to see. Thanks for sharing it.
Steve, thanks for you input and thoughts.
As to Helmut Konrad Freiherr von Keusgen, the alleged leading German historical expert on the battle....shame on you for not knowing the casualty figures sustained on Omaha Beach! From what I have read, less than half those figures reported were actually killed and wounded on that beach.
I have done my share of veteran interviews and the machine gunners I had the privilage of talking with state it is impossible, in the heat of the battle, to count the victims sustained by their fire....unless they had the rare opportunity to count the dead after the action.
The meat of this thread here is the inflated number of victims Severloh claims to have shot. There is no way he could have an accurate figure from his vantage point. Some soldiers, as stated, no doubt dove for cover and could have appeared to have been hit. I'm sure there was alot of residual smoke that day, limiting visibility. If he claims 1,000-2,000 US soldiers hit, that would be almost every casualty sustained that day on the beach---a rediculous claim that would discredit any of his memoirs or accounts.
To challenge all assumptions, perhaps, as Jean-Loup stated, there was a miscommunication during the interview and he was actually referring to US casualties as a whole sustained on that day by all German fire.
It's too bad Severloh is now deceased to clarify this excellent thread...
-EricComment
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I should like to put some of this into perspective.
I once heard a B-17 pilot asked if he killed any civilians. He said, "Thousands of them." Was he boasting? A braggart? How could he know? He didn't. But he did know what he saw as 500 lb. bombs shattered cities and industries below him on multiple missions. He drew his own conclusions. The pilot of course directly killed no one. Technically, it was the bombardier. But each played his total part as a team and all were responsible.
Severloh is probably much like the B-17 pilot in his own comments. Did he mention a thousand or maybe two? Apparently so. Was it like the pilot talking about himself? His plane? His bomb group? Who knows. But there is little doubt that Severloh and Gockel (also a machinegunner but on the right of WN 62 vice left) and many others at WN 62 were responsible for hundreds of deaths and possibly four-figure total casualties.
The 1st Division, 16th Regiment’s losses in killed alone on D-Day were 106. The 18th regiment was similar. Most of those were under the guns of the part of the beach covered by WN 62. Wounded? Who knows. Usually a 6:1 ratio, but it was plenty. A major named Al Smith of 3rd Battalion, 16th Infantry told me his records showed the 16th Regiment had 45% of the 1st Division’s casualties on D-Day.
I will try to let Hein answer for himself about this through his book in my imperfect translation. Any errors are mine.
Speaking of a return trip to Normandy he states:
We moved in the direction of the WN-62 landing area, continuing our discussion. An American there asked me who we were and what were we doing there. I told him I was German and had come back to see everything. In fact, however, Franz Gockel had arranged for and was meeting with some journalists from the magazine BUNTE for an extensive interview (also with me) on the exact site.
The two Americans then stated they were at that time members of the 16th US Infantry Regiment of the 1st Division and had landed exactly in front of this location. In the meantime we arrived at the position from which I had fired upon the beach on 6 June 1944 - and I told them that. They paused for a moment, then said smiling:
“You damned pig…”
Whereupon one of them told me:
“After we finally arrived down here (pointing to the place in which a shingle rises one and a half meters high along the beach), only 24 men remained from our 250-man company who were not wounded or killed; all of our 16 officers were dead or wounded, and a sergeant had to take over the command of the remainder of the company. We both (he pointed to his buddy) were at that time Captains and were also wounded…”
Severloh's actions during the day check out. Gockel also held out for quite some time. Severloh and Gockel both state that there were others in the position when they left it, both ordered back, they believed, because of their youth and wounds. It is well established that the landing was under constant fire from 0630 to mid-afternoon. If a hundred soldiers were killed or wounded each hour in front of WN 62, not an impossible figure to imagine, then the numbers would be very high over a 9-10 hour period.
Like the bomber pilot, I do not believe Severloh was trying to be some kind of hero. He was haunted by the tragedy and magnitude of events the rest of his life--like so many on both sides. He never received an award of any kind. Not even a wound badge, though he does state some German reenacters gave him one some years later. His book is as straight forward and as humble as he was. SteveComment
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In the translated and paraphrased quotes provided above, it seems that Sverloh is speaking for himself personally when giving the 2,000 figure. In this thread we have already established some details concerning the American casualties on Omaha and exactly what constituted WN62, see: Post #46 (Omaha casualties); Post #80 (WN62 weaponry: 1 x 7.5 cm gun, 2 x 5.0 cm AT guns, 2 x 5.0 cm mortars, 1 x 2.0 cm Zwilling Flak gun plus 4 x LMGs, all manned by 31 German soldiers); and, Post #85 (personal opinion).
These facts lead to the conclusion that WN62 could have been responsible for upwards of 1,000 total casualties over the course of the day, at least it’s within the realm of possibility, but the claim that Severloh caused all of these by himself must be treated as delusional at best. The man was only 1/31st of that hornet’s nest and everyone was firing. I think this is as close as we can get to a quantitative analysis of what happened.
So it appears that the confusion is over whether Sverloh was talking about himself alone, or whether he was carelessly substituting the first person singular for the third person plural. Like Steve’s B-17 crew, I believe Severloh was speaking for his Bunker as a whole, but people have misconstrued it as a personal claim.
--LarryComment
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I agree Larry. But the handful of machine gunners did the most damage by far. And as to the WN 62 make up, may I offer a few missing details.
If WN 62 were a clock, I will try to explain. There were at least 6 machine gun positions, albeit they were a bit centered in the position. Four faced the front, one in the center and one faced the rear but could be brought to bear forward:
11 o'clock - Position with MG 42 manned by Gefr. Faust and Gefr. Kwiatkowsky; both KIA
12 o'clock but inset - Position with MG wz 08 or MG wz 30, watercooled Polish gun. Soldat Kieserling, KIA
2 o'clock - Position with MG wz 08 or MG wz 30, watercooled Polish gun. Gefr. Gockel, WIA
Clock center - Position MG 42 manned by Gefr. Severloh, WIA & POW
6 o'clock - Unfinished position with unknown type MG, probably Polish, manned by Gefr. Schnichels, WIA & POW
9 o'clock - AA MG Position with dual MGs (probably MG 42s) manned by Ofwbl Pieh, WIA; UntOffz Schulte, KIA; and Gefr. Häming, KIA
In addition to this, Gockel states his element on the right side had two LMGs for the troops in the trenches. Gockel states that Kieserling and Häming later used one of these.
Gockel told me he fired upwards of 8,000 rounds from his Polish gun and then stripped ammo off the belts to fire his K98 when it was damaged. He said in his book that his shots were typically at 100 - 120 meters in range!
There are many fascinating details of this WN and I have sketches from both Gockel and the one from Severloh's book. They match in many details if not scale and accuracy. It is also interesting that this postion was manned by infantry that were NOT from the 352nd Division. They were from the 716th, considered a lower grade static unit. Only Severloh's 7 soldiers were from the 352nd Division and they were artillery observers. SteveLast edited by regular122; 05-08-2008, 10:30 PM.Comment
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Steve,
Just let me say thank you for all the Infos about Severloh s positions you re giving us!I find it very interesting!
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sorry to corret you but Gefr. Kwiatkowsky; survived the war. he was the reason why the authot von keusgen postponed the publishing of his latest book "bloddy Omaha" as he found out the this guy is still alive. by the way he was a famous soccer palcer of Schalke 04. Gefr. Kwiatkowsky; was a guest on a openig meeting last year of von Keusgens invitationOriginally posted by regular122 View Post
JürgStrength and Honour
http://standwheretheyfought.jimdo.com/Comment
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