Announcement

**CWP** · 11-04-2004, 03:45 PM

At the best WWII reenactment events, there are no spectators. These events take place over acres of land- sometimes many square miles- in terrain that varies from woodland to roads and fields and in some cases, towns. Even if spectators were there they would likely have a hard time seeing the reenactors taking cover in concealed positions. It is totally different from Civil War reenacting. Events with spectators usually consist more of "living history" with camp displays, etc. and may contain a small staged battle scene in a field but generally that's about it for battles with spectators, at least in the US.

Chris P.
www.3pgd.org

**Craigob** · 11-04-2004, 04:50 PM

you may find that this will answer your question. This is an report of our 24 hour tactical at odessa in NY. This is a total immersion event by that i mean
we speak german, we use our period names, we live in the trenches, we have watch duty, we eat like them.

anyways have a read this is from Friday Night till Sunday. this the report from 2nd group, GD has about 6 groups

-------------------------------------------------------------
The early arrivals from 2te gruppe started their afternoon clearing foliage to create a clear view and reposition barbed wire to funnel the enemy into two killing zones in front of our trench.
Two seperate positions were made for the MG 42 that would be used to rotate to back and forth. I felt confident, for 1st gruppe was on our right flank and 3rd gruppe was on our left flank. As darkness fell our section was relativelly quite from 9:00 pm to 1:00 am, besides the occasional flare and gun shot.

At 1:00 am a four man squad was sent out to find weaknesses and enemy assets. The squad consisted of two members from 2te gruppe. The mission was successful and the
information gathered was reported to the Leutnant. A four man Russian probe was repelled at our outer wire from our forward listening post at about 4:00 am. All four Russin infilltrators were ambushed and eliminated at the wire. At 6:00am the right flank of the Russian lines were attacked from elements of 1st, 2nd and 3rd squads. The attack was lead by der Ausbuilder. The outer Russian lines were swiftly breached under the cover of smoke. The trenches were systematiclly cleared, first with grenades followed by MG 42 fire and rifle fire. We fought our way deep into the Russian lines. At the rise of the trench system the Communist Russian flag was acquired for safe keeping. Der
Ausbuilder accompanied by *****, broke into a large unguarded bunker and slit the throats of two Russians while they slept. (they weren't ammused) Having the flag we fought our way out and back to our own lines where **** pesented the flag to the Stab.

A second attack was executed in the afternoon in the same manner, on the same right flank with the same results. At about 1:00pm the Russians could be seen massingin there forward trench directly across from 2te gruppe.

Our mortor team consisting of ****and *** were brought up to shell the massing hord, of which there were approx three direct hits. A Russian infantry attack soon followed. The enemy came directly between 2te gruppe and 1st gruppe. Right into our previously set up killing zone.

We had them in a cross fire, with our MG42 set up on one corner. The static MG42 position was manned by **** with **** as num 2 gunner. A withering stream of MG fire was laid down and the bodies of fallen Russians literally began to pile up. A second attack by the Russian was launched shortly there after with the same results. They retreated in defeat. All was quite untill approx 3pm when the Russian had broken through our far left flank, Guarded by 5th gruppe. There attack was quick and hard. They were behind our position and as most of 2te gruppe was exiting the rear of our trench to set up a skirmish line we were overrun.

After being overrun we regrouped in our own trench and prepaired for the 5:15 final assult. 1st, 2nd, 3rd and I believe 5th were organized and positioned above the pond behind a
hedgerow. Attacks were to begin at both flanks at 5pm. from other
division, while our gruppe waited till 5:15 for a frontal assualt.

At 5:15pm we traversed the hedgerow with many soldat carrying smoke in hand. The smoke was launched in front of us as we made a quick dash to the Russian trench line, stopping only briefly to fire wepons so other soldat could advace protected. We came under relativelly light fire from the Russians as I found out later some were low or out of ammunition. Into the trenches we went, and again started clearing with grenades, MGs and
rifle fire until the enemy were overcome. I must say, the unit
cohession, along with our unusual supply of smoke and grenades made our assualts almost impossible for the Russian to halt.

**Bill D.** · 11-04-2004, 05:33 PM

Well, o.k., but what do you actually do ?

I understand the living history aspect of it, the period clothes, the food, etc.

But to re-enact the combat? Is it a lot of guys roaming over the terrain, looking for each other? Do you fire blanks from weapons ? Is there some competition element to it ?

**Craigob** · 11-04-2004, 06:41 PM

Hi There..

sometimes there are objectives, a recent event at odessa had many obejectives such as capturing a farm house, taking a bunker and such like, this type of event is points based.. we normally win the odessa event but they made the ojectives really hard this year for the germans since the amies were getting little tired of loosing at the time

yes we fire blanks and lots of them, we use grenades that blow up in a puff of baking soda, we have landmines that are adapted from painball mines (instead of paint they shoot up a spray of baking soda). We also follow strict safety rules. No discharging your rifle next to someones head ( the gases escaping can hurt!!)

At public events such as Reading, then its the same set up as a civil war event. the public wanders around your camp, asks you questions etc

heres a link to a collection of pics from past events

http://www.grossdeutschland.com/past-event-photos.htm

**Ash.H** · 11-05-2004, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Bill Dienna

When i was in the National Park Service I supervised and took part in living history and military re-enactments for the periods of the american Revolution and the Civil War. The military re-enactments were carried out as they were at those times, with formations of troops moving en masse, firing as regiments, charging as regiments, etc. There was an almost "theatrical" aspect to it, since all of the troops on both sides were visiable on the field and the progreaa of the battle could be watched from begining to end.

So how do you re-enact World War II, when there were no set-piece battles, and fighting often took place with the combatants dispersed throughout woods or streets in a town?

Hello Bill,

Not really an answer to your question, but my take on things, I've been a living historian/re-enactor type for 8 years now, so still very much a baby.

A friend of mine (who was an English Civil War re-enactor) once said to me "..we can march like them, drill like them, eat like them, live like them, but we cannot die like 'em.." This statement really got me thinking, and I suppose is why now I enjoy full on static living history (as opposed to a tactical) where I assume my character/role within a unit, and act accordingly.

Just my thoughts,

Cheers!

Ash

**Blitzvogel** · 07-08-2005, 12:06 PM

Of course there are particular battles to stage. Our unit the 15PzGren uses their regimental guidon and its battle honours to serve as reference to battles such as Monte Cassio. As the MG42 gunner for our truppe, the attention to detail for kit, bivouac life, food etc is one thing, but to emulate and be spot on with my tactical and battle deportment is another. I want to learn and practice all there is for the MG42 position. Understanding defilade and enfialde fire. Our recent tactical at CFB Borden was an outstanding combined arms effort, which consisted of the Canadians in a delaying action and the 2nd Panzer Div doing a chase.

To answer your question, I believe that audience does not define the quality or accuracy of the battle. Many of member know the tactics, history and abilities of their equipment perfectly. It is a wonderful chance to change the outcome of history

**Gary Cain** · 07-26-2005, 06:52 PM

Hi Bill,

In a best case scenario we do exactly as the real soldiers did it. We move to a objective, engage the enemy and take the objective. We use blanks(using an honor system to determine if you are a casualty, some clubs use the Graef system which uses referee's). Unlike CW or Rev War reenactments where the individual is merely a cog in a machine, WWII reenactors can make a difference in the outcome of that particular battle. The reasoning for this is that even though the actual battle ended in a victory for one side or the other, in reality there were local victories by the losing side so it does not affect what historically happened. Obviously if it is a public battle then CW rules apply, and the bad guys lose.

Gary

Originally posted by Bill Dienna

Well, o.k., but what do you actually do ?

I understand the living history aspect of it, the period clothes, the food, etc.

But to re-enact the combat? Is it a lot of guys roaming over the terrain, looking for each other? Do you fire blanks from weapons ? Is there some competition element to it ?

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How do you re-enact World War II ?

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