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**BEB9** · 05-31-2015, 01:46 AM

I can't help you with searching tips, sorry, but I wanted to express my sympathies that your family lost so many members in both wars. It's very sad and tragic. It's lovely that you want to remember them and honour them.

Regards

Nicole

**Galacnor** · 06-01-2015, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by BEB9 View Post

I can't help you with searching tips, sorry, but I wanted to express my sympathies that your family lost so many members in both wars. It's very sad and tragic. It's lovely that you want to remember them and honour them.

Regards

Nicole

Whats even more disheartening is that kind of loss was not all that uncommon. Entire generations of male family members were wiped away in both wars in many families.

Your sentiment is well appreciated, Ms. Nicole.

It's a view that isn't shared among many here in the United States, or in Germany. In fact I probably had the worst time in Germany with it.

Ernst's gravesite is known, unlike some of the other family member's (he's buried in Lommel Belgium), who are simply known to be buried somewhere in an area. Since we know where Ernst is to the grave marker, years ago me and my grand father (when he was still living) went to Germany with a copy of his photograph and a small plaque for his gravestone simply expressing that he was a good man who made a valid sacrifice and that he had not been forgotten by his family. Upon landing at the airport in Munich border police confiscated both items, expressing the sentiment in a tongue and cheek manner that "you cannot bring such things here to honor him for being a soldier, he was not a victim, only a killer."

Neither the plaque nor the photographs carried any natonal socialist emblems or symbols of any kind, neither said anything remotely racist, discriminating or otherwise insulting or a denial of any atrocities committed by the Germans during the war. Furthermore Ernst would have been 9 years old when hitler took power in 1933. He had absolutely nothing to do with the nazi party or his rise to power. A man who barely was in his 20's at the end of the war clearly had no responsibility for the war or national socialism in Germany.

And that's really what I find most insulting about the treatment of both living german veterans of the wars and the dead. Both here in the United states and the world over. The great majority were not responsible for nor capable of stopping what transpired in the war. Yet they are all branded racist, honorless, murdering thugs because people are too lazy to sort those truly responsible for the atrocities from those who simply had to go or went because their country called them to and they answered.

Even more insulting is that many of the gentlemen that served in the first world War are also painted with the same brush people have painted those responsible for the second war with.

Of course you need to look at it from the other side too, if my family had been on the receiving end of what transpired, I probably would have little sympathy for the agressors, but even the decedents of the men who served look at them as demons.

I think one day things will change, though, that Germany will stop bullying into silence those who wish to remember their relatives as the people they were, and that someday perhaps they will stop treating the rememberence of those who served as a quiet barely legal private mourning into a sacrifice that is to be honored and thought about, something to reflect upon. Eventually people will understand that it is possible to honor a person without honoring the cause they fought for. Hitler and the nazis were very wrong, but that blame cannot be transfered to the average landser.

Unfortunately that day will come far too late for the people that really need to be thanked for their sacrifice, even the youngest among them will be gone soon. And that's really the biggest tragedy. That those men had to do what they did and walked the rest of their lives in shame because of it. An injustice if there ever was one.

Just some food for thought.

**PaulR** · 06-01-2015, 06:20 AM

I agree with what you say 100%. Thank you for doing what you can to honor these men. As you said, it was not they that brought on the war. They were victims as well.

I would not have tolerated the confiscation of those items. I would have appealled the confiscation of personal photographs and materials. What they did was illegal, even by the European denazification laws.

**Galacnor** · 06-01-2015, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by PaulR View Post

I agree with what you say 100%. Thank you for doing what you can to honor these men. As you said, it was not they that brought on the war. They were victims as well.

I would not have tolerated the confiscation of those items. I would have appealled the confiscation of personal photographs and materials. What they did was illegal, even by the European denazification laws.

I was only a child at the time, unfortunately. The trip was back in summer of 2003. I would only been 6 at time. At the time I didn't really think much of it, but as the years have rolled on and I've become more aware of what they had to go through and how they (the dead) are treated today, I've become increasingly bitter over it. I believe customs officials here in the United states have some leeway as to what they consider contraband, and as such can confiscate things as they see fit as long as they are prepared to argue their case as to why the confiscation took place. (I was prevented from bringing a half eaten sandwich I had brought from Norway through customs once because of some restriction on bringing certain foods and things that contain spoilable dairy through. although obviously I wasn't losing any sleep over a warm and soggy bit of bread

)
I'm unsure of if laws are similar in Germany.

I do also suppose that the blame really shouldn't lie directly with Germany, but instead with the people who try to veil anti-semetic, extremist and racist ideals behind remembrance for the dead. I've seen pictures and videos of various fringe political groups (Read: Neonazi scum) from around Europe gathered at graveyards of the fallen, all clad in neo nazi garments and waiving flags just different enough from original nazi flags to be legal, spewing insufferable lies about the men who rest in the Graves and beyond. Saying things like "they did it for the white race" "to rid the world of jews" "to kill the Slavic people". Just utter garbage and absolute nonsense. Enough to make someone who truly wishes for the men to be remembered respectfully sick with anger. And cause the fallen to roll over in their graves. If only people would stop using them as pawns in a quest for political gain, perhaps the world would see them for the people they were. Normal soldiers with no more agenda than the allied one. With bozos like that hanging around trying to claim they respect the dead, who wouldnt be suspicious of any attempt to bring tokens to their gravesites?

**SuKeN** · 06-03-2015, 03:12 AM

Thanks for sharing with us the story of your family in the two world wars , God bless them.

**o.r.k.** · 06-10-2015, 12:57 PM

What horrific fate to have the own family almost wiped out- partwise in war and then by post war atrocities. Even on the scale of German war victims these losses in one family are horrific. For modern Germany not even allowing to grief for those who have given their lives is simply the pathological state of nation that tries to compensate one extreme by another. My condolences to your family and as one member said, I hope that one day the ordinary Germans are seen as victims of this ugly war, too, with a right to be remembered and respected. Unfortunately this disrespect for a whole generation and the nation itself is already taught at school.
Just to mention it- this is not about excusing the crimes that were also perpetrated in the name of Germany- it is all about any Hans, Eva, Horst, Karl or Gudrun ..... , being expelled or murdered as civilians or fighting for their beloved ones and the homeland as honorable soldiers, losing their lives or experiencing horrors and mistreatment. They should be allowed the same grief as Ivan, Olga, Claude, Jeanette, Drago or Alexis, or any other victim of war or injustice.

**juoneen** · 06-16-2015, 04:35 PM

Unfortunately Germany losing has taught them a different way this time, they really won as now they control Europe basically through controlling the money, instead of militarily, and both ways can be just a devastating.

I think Germany today distances themselves from is prior misguided attempts at world conquest and domination through violent means...but IMO has never made right all their transgressions to many country's of the world...doubt they ever will...just a new twist on the old ideas.....the Swiss are also much to blame as they bankroll most every military uprising ...they also have only paid a small fraction of the debts they should still be paying, not to mention that all Swiss bank accounts should have been opened to never allow the hiding of monies from countries governments by many who partner up with their banks dealing with dictators and criminal governments to launder ill gotten gains still to this day...they could possibly even be working with Isis, and other terrorists in financial laundering partnerships, since they were never punished enough , and forced to open the books forever from hiding financial partnerships that would be frowned on by democracy's.
Your family members were just pawns by war munitions manufacturers who have learned how to profit from their demise, and yet the beat goes on....even today as they all learn how to profit from the little guys wasted lives through the new and improved game still destroying family's everywhere IN the world. To those who profit at the cost of our lives, they value human life as chattel in the war business, so when will it all end?

**Galacnor** · 06-22-2015, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by SuKeN View Post

Thanks for sharing with us the story of your family in the two world wars , God bless them.

It is a pleasure to share their story, it is through remembrance and the telling of their stories that they may live on in spirit. Your kind comments are appreciated, I believe firmly that they enjoy the best of what Heaven has to offer, if only because they did not have the privilege to experience much of life's better blessings here on earth. We are lucky to live in much kinder times.

Originally posted by o.r.k. View Post

What horrific fate to have the own family almost wiped out- partwise in war and then by post war atrocities. Even on the scale of German war victims these losses in one family are horrific. For modern Germany not even allowing to grief for those who have given their lives is simply the pathological state of nation that tries to compensate one extreme by another. My condolences to your family and as one member said, I hope that one day the ordinary Germans are seen as victims of this ugly war, too, with a right to be remembered and respected. Unfortunately this disrespect for a whole generation and the nation itself is already taught at school.
Just to mention it- this is not about excusing the crimes that were also perpetrated in the name of Germany- it is all about any Hans, Eva, Horst, Karl or Gudrun ..... , being expelled or murdered as civilians or fighting for their beloved ones and the homeland as honorable soldiers, losing their lives or experiencing horrors and mistreatment. They should be allowed the same grief as Ivan, Olga, Claude, Jeanette, Drago or Alexis, or any other victim of war or injustice.

Your condolences are much appreciated and it is encouraging to hear a modern native of Germany talk highly of their sacrifice. My family in Germany suffered horribly during the second world war, and has never recovered. For the most part it was not our fight, we were historically speaking dirt farmers, people definitely not of noble or wealthy blood, with no reason to care about political or racial differences, they tended their fields and kept to themselves. As long as they could sell their crop and bring it to market, I don't believe they were at all concerned with goings on in the capital. There are a few Badenhop(e)s living in Germany still, but I don't believe the family will make it more than another generation or two in its native lands, there are far more Badenhopes now alive in Australia and Ohio in the USA than there are still in their home of Baden-Wuttenburg. I do not think it is unreasonable to want recognition and respect for the fallen.

Although the lack of empathy shown for German veterans here in the United States is upsetting, I have experienced first hand how poorly they are thought of at home in their native lands, the one place where they should be remembered fondly and accepted, but are not, a truly heartbreaking revelation. It is a sad day for the Lander when one must express that they seek to honor the soldier for his sacrifice and not for the crimes committed by his nation, lest he be branded a racist or sympathizer of the national socialists because he respects the sacrifice of the ordinary soldier. Perhaps someday they will stop teaching that they were all bad men, just normal people that got swept up in the war like the rest of the world.

Originally posted by juoneen View Post

Unfortunately Germany losing has taught them a different way this time, they really won as now they control Europe basically through controlling the money, instead of militarily, and both ways can be just a devastating.

I think Germany today distances themselves from is prior misguided attempts at world conquest and domination through violent means...but IMO has never made right all their transgressions to many country's of the world...doubt they ever will...just a new twist on the old ideas.....the Swiss are also much to blame as they bankroll most every military uprising ...they also have only paid a small fraction of the debts they should still be paying, not to mention that all Swiss bank accounts should have been opened to never allow the hiding of monies from countries governments by many who partner up with their banks dealing with dictators and criminal governments to launder ill gotten gains still to this day...they could possibly even be working with Isis, and other terrorists in financial laundering partnerships, since they were never punished enough , and forced to open the books forever from hiding financial partnerships that would be frowned on by democracy's.
Your family members were just pawns by war munitions manufacturers who have learned how to profit from their demise, and yet the beat goes on....even today as they all learn how to profit from the little guys wasted lives through the new and improved game still destroying family's everywhere IN the world. To those who profit at the cost of our lives, they value human life as chattel in the war business, so when will it all end?

There really is a-lot to wars that isn't talked about much, including the way they are bankrolled and funded, I can't claim to understand much about the economics of war, but I do know that neutral countries will still often bankroll those that are fighting. The United States did that during the first world war, we funded both the Central powers and the Allies. It has also come to light rather recently that the swiss may have knowingly allowed the nazi's to transport many of their victims to concetration camps over swiss owned railway lines. Even the "innocent" often have parts in wars.

That being said I don't believe any of that is related to my family or their personal experiences during the war. They were pawns to the national socialists, but were also normal soldiers doing their duty.

**o.r.k.** · 06-22-2015, 11:02 AM

Thanks for your input. Well I´m certainly stating a minority opinion in Germany- but that goes to the fact that nobody really knows what really happened then, but has learnt a lot of opinion. For a too long time I, too, didn´t give a damn for all these old events, I can remember sitting there with my own grandfather, bored of his old stories and war recounts as a teenager. I feel quite ashamed of my indifference towards him nowadays and would now be able to have the nice consversation with him that he deserved. Having learnt a lot since then I treat the old generation with respect, even the more as I see how ungrateful they are currently treated by individuals and society- they were the true and only backbone of our `Wirtschaftwunder´. It is nice to hear that at least the emigrated part of the Badenhopes is flourishing. The stunnig thing is that the same guys who today show their hateful raw `civic courage´ towards minority opinions (not neo nazi) and the old, stating to be the good ones would have done so 80 years ago, too, against those who seemingly didn´t belong to the Volksgemeinschaft. Mob in character and brain weight. Where on earth would you find descendants of victims in Dresden holding up banners `Bomber Harris do it again`?????Somehow I´ve always preferred to stand opposite to the mob and use my brain...: ).
Germany has never recovered from the psychological blows of WW2- we might be the (quickly fading) strongest economic power in the world but would never dare to articulate state interest or reason or give direction. We´re in Europe so that we mustn´t be Germans any more and if we get involved it is always in the name of global humanity and universal rights but never in the interest of Germany. Nevertheless such high causes can cause a lot of grief, too.....

**Galacnor** · 10-23-2015, 10:31 AM

Update

A quick update.

Photograph of Willi's grave site near Rotenburg along with a small memorial.

"In memory
Our beloved fallen
Unteroffizier Willi Badenhop(e)
Born 27Th of September 1921
Fell in January 1945
at Gumbinnen.
May he rest in peace"

Gumbinnen refers to the "Gumbinnen Operation", where Soviet forces unsuccessfully tried to penetrate into East Prussia in mid October of 1944. A power struggle over the area ensued for the next few months with Soviet casualties in the first month alone over 60 thousand.

**Galacnor** · 10-26-2015, 11:38 PM

Update 2

In a very happy twist of fate also now another piece of the puzzle.

Something that I think I must be very fortunate to have been given.
A surviving relative in Germany had this displayed on his family tree, and very kindly let me have a copy.

The only discrepancy is in his town of birth, but otherwise everything else is correct to the date. I believe somehow two different cities were listed for him.
How many times in one day can two Heinz Badenhop's with the same parents named with the same birthdays fall in one day? Me thinks someone screwed up in the info office 70 odd years ago.

Heres a scan of the obituary.

Heres a rather rough translation, my comprehension of the language is rather good, but some of the old fashioned ways of saying things in this were very difficult for me to understand.
Anyone want to try to make it sound better for me? Perhaps you, Ork?

Originally posted by o.r.k. View Post

Thanks for your input.

"From Burgwedel, during advent 1942.

On the afternoon of December 3rd our Local Party leader and our mayor delivered to us the message that our eldest son, a student of theology

Sargent Heinz Dietrich Badenhop

Was killed on the morning of Friday the 6Th of November around 6 in the morning during a large offensive involving shock troops. He was killed instantly by shrapnel.
His body was sadly unrecoverable.

After a review of his service record, his commanding officers had these things to say:

"I have the deepest of faith in him"

"I will never meet a man with a stronger handshake"

"He never broke a promise"

"He had my full confidence and I shall praise him until my dying day"

Based on his faith, testimony of friends and from his letters home, we all know the things that made him strong in
life even in the face of death.

His faith alone is our consolation: For he is reborn through God!
The eternal Lord, and Heavenly Father.

Our beloved Heinz-Dieter

From this mortal world of strife he goes to the eternal kingdom of peace to live in community with God.

"he is not dead,
he who God was alive to"

Cheers
Alex

**Bcarver** · 10-27-2015, 09:25 PM

You nailed the translation. Very well done.

**Galacnor** · 12-05-2015, 11:13 PM

**Robert T.** · 01-14-2016, 10:51 AM

Great presentation.

Cheers,
Robert

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