Drying agent and Dehumifiers...

[Military]

Hello all,

im contemplating to make a more conscientious effort to look after my medal collection. Notably, some iron crosses (EK2s) that i have seem to have rust on them. I have read some forum posts and mostly recommend to control the humidity and to use drying agents (Silca gel, desiccants, etc) or a dehumidifier.

1. Would someone recommend where i can purchase drying agents from? any recommended sellers? and how would these fit into a Riker mount?

2. Or should i store my riker mount boxes (where the medals are), into a large air tight box and then put the drying agents in the large box?

3. What dehumifiers are good? and where can i get them?

4. Should i remove the rust on the medals? scrape or brush them off? The paint will also flake if I do so, so i am not doing anything. my main worry is the rust from spreading. but generally the humidity in the UK is about 60% where I live in-land.

Your learned opinions please.
thank you.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Damp-Rid (brand name) is a great product for sealed spaces, but it will only take RH down to about 50%.

In combination with silica within the closed space, you should have no trouble achieving a very easily maintained RH of between 40% to 50%.

Beyond this, any dehumidifier that is rated for the volume of the room in which you wish to control will do just fine.

Do some more "searches" here first regarding the subject, then experiment a little with these (3) things, and you will do just fine!

Brad

[Stahlhelm]

Hello,

First of all, I'm always happy to hear that anyone is thinking so seriously about conservation. I wish everyone would be as thoughtful, and I think we'd all be a lot happier in the long run.

Now, I'll to try to answer a few of your questions. As for the silica beads, you should be able to purchase those from just about any craft shop. The beads are very commonly used by florists and anyone wanting to dry flowers. I bought a whole can of them recently at a local craft store myself. Since most everyone has a craft store somewhere nearby, I'd consider that to be the most convenient of places to buy the silica beads.

One of the best things about the silica beads is that they can be reused. Once they have absorbed all the moisture they can hold, they typically change color. You can then put them in the microwave for a couple of minutes, and they will then be dried out and ready to use just as effectively again. The directions for all of that should also be on the bead container. If you are keeping your collection in any type of closed container or case, I think the beads are one of the best ways to decrease humidity--again that is a good measure for smaller, contained areas. As far as whether it's better to put the beads in a smaller box or a larger container in which multiple boxes are kept, I would say that the beads would be most effective in the smaller of the containers or cases that you are using. That way, the beads are better controlling the humidity levels of the areas most closely affecting your collection. If you are storing your collection in boxes within boxes, then you might even try putting the beads in all boxes (smaller and larger), just to be on the safe side. Having said all that, the beads, while helpful, are by no means a comprehensive solution in my opinion. It's also a matter of how much humidity is getting in your collection's environment overall and how quickly you are redrying the beads. Of course, once the beads have absorbed all the moisture they can hold, they are again 100% ineffective.

So, I would say that the larger and consitently more effective approach is to monitor and control the humidity level in the whole room in which your collection is being kept. Monitor the humidity of the whole room with a hygrometer which can be purchased just about anywhere these days. I would suggest a digital type for easiest viewing and convenience. As for controlling humidity in rooms and/or larger areas, I would also suggest using a dehumidifier which is large enough for the area in which you are keeping your collection. Again, the speifications for that should be marked on the box for the dehumidifier. As for specific brands, I personally don't have a preference. If you're thinking of doing one or the other (that is silica beads or a dehumidifier), then I'd definitely go with the dehumidifier. Again, it's just the all-around, more comprehensive way to deal with the issue.

As for existing rust, I would definitely not be scraping any of it off myself. I also have a nice screwback EK1 with very small amounts of rust in several areas next to the frame. It's nothing major or visually detracting, but I've certainly never wanted it to progress to any amounts where it would be. So, from the beginning of the crosses time with me (about 6 years ago), I simply controlled the humidity levels of its environment. As a result, I have never seen so much as a single extra flake of rust develop on it--even under high magnification and regular checks. So, from my experience, if you deprive the rust of the humidity it needs to survive, it simply dies a sudden death. Cleaning off rust can cause changes in the appearance of things in ways that you may not imagine and will likely not even like as much as the current appearance of the rust. When something has been cleaned and/or removed that is anything more than light dirt, I have long ago learned that regret is the only likely result.

I hope the above has been helpful. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I'm always happy to tell you what I know.

Chris

[bobcam1]

Chris,
Find Paul, and.....Put .....a.....book.....together!!!!!!.....

Bob.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Just be sure to get the right type of silica bead for what you are attempting to achieve - there are a few different varieties available, and some are not so dynamic as others!

Brad

[N.C. Wyeth]

Chris,
Find Paul, and.....Put .....a.....book.....together!!!!!!.....

Bob.

Bob,

Offer.....them.....a......contract!

Brad

[Paul R.]

Great advise N C, and Chris. I just wanted to add a few thoughts also. It may sound like a lot of fussing here, but it's another way of thinking about long term conservation. This is really not rocket science. It's best to keep heat amd humidity at a constance level(as much as possible). Heat 67-70. Humidity 43-45% year round. It's best to store them in an acid free enviroment. Check out the pinned articles on plastic at the top of the conservation area.
Just remember they ain't making any more of this stuff. So why not take care of it. Paul

[Military]

Exactly. you got what i wanted to say - they arent making any more of it, so that was why im so keen to research more on conservation, even more so some EK2s have rust or appear to have rust on them! worrying a bit!

I have some questions:

1. Will it be safe to put the rusty (or less rust) pieces with those that appear to be clean? or best to keep those rusting ones separately?

2. A friend recommended a silver wash. Dip into silver wash, rinse with warm running water, pat really dry, leave totally dry. is this a good idea? he claimed i should try the silver drip, but as each medal is precious, i dont want to risk anything. has anyone tried?

3. sealing the riker mount - i often need to take out medals for identification or study purposes, so sealing boxes is not a good idea, but taking it out every now and then is a chore. any suggestions? or wear a glove? or should i try to find a totally transparent plastic case on both sides?

4. how about ribbons? do these also need proper dehumidifying stuff? mine are currently placed in ziploc bags. my friend also advised not to put medals in ziploc bags as the moisture wouldbe trapped!

your learned comments please.
respectfully, Mil.

[Paul R.]

Military. I'll answer your question's 1-4. #1 rust is of course caused by moisture. So If that are stored in a mylar sleeve(inert plastic)you will be fine. Some collectors then put then in an acid box. Bad idea! cheap card board boxes off gasses and hold moisture. Use acid free boxes. Rust will not jump from one medal to another medal. Again humidity gauge to moniter humidity and a dehumidifer is a plus. #2 Why would any collector do this. Why do you want to change the original WWII german silver wash, and change history? What is with peoples obsession on cleaning history, or in a sense changing it by re plating, re blue items, or washing cloths items. I do not get it. #3 Riker mounts are not 100% museum safe. The are only 90% acid free card board. The riker system is for short term storage only. Do not use there fabric insert. It is a poor quality and will provide a host of future problems. Please read pinned articles on medal stoage systems on the top of these threads. Yes use cotton or vinyl gloves it's a must, and please do not eat or drink around your collection. #4 Your friend is correct do not use ziploc (poor quality plastic will do a lot of harm) and yes will trap moisture and will turn silver black.
Hope this helps you with your questions. Remember read the pinned articles. I put them there to help inform collectors. Paul

[Military]

Paul, thank you for answering my questions.

The most worrying is the rust spreading to other medals in the same riker mount box. I am trying to acquire a dehumifier. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated, or perhaps point me to a seller or manufacturer.

I shall quote what you say, "WE SPEND LOTS OF MONEY ON OUR HOBBY. SPEND A FEW MORE DOLLARS TO PRESERVE HISTORY!"

There needs to be more awareness on conservation. I do agree silver washing and all that erases history! Leave it as it is! i shall no longer attempt to clean any! (although i have to truthfully say that i had one item cleaned - naughty naughty!)

[Paul R.]

Military.. Around here in the US. any home improvement store carries them, or building supply company. and some discount stores.
That's what this thread is all about. Finding good solid information. Don't feel bad about something that you did. Next time if you need to clean something clean your car .. It's all about learning on this path of life.. Paul